Annie Moody

Physically Distant with a Strong Connection

 Jeff and Don explore what it means to deeply connect, even if you are physically apart. From being intentional about what you talk about (strengths, areas of improvement and worldview) to taking the conversation deeper to discuss the matters that are closest to your heart.



Transcription of the Podcast


Don:

But I also want to make it clear that I know there’s single dads, single moms out there, even married couples that are kind of, “Oh, the kids are all here. What are we going to do?” Well, we’ve got to adapt. We’ve got to adjust.

Jeff:

So welcome back to The Journey Podcast, where we really do care deeply about real and authentic relationships. This is Jeff and I’m sitting here today with Don.

Don:

Good morning, Jeff.

Jeff:

Good morning, Don. And we’re going to talk a little bit about connecting, about those relationships that really matter in life. And it’s a topic that is really important with all that is going on in the world, and we think it matters now as much as it ever has. So yeah, jump in and grab a cup of coffee wherever you’re at, and sit back and relax for a few minutes and we’ll chat. So a little background, and this just happened yesterday, in fact. I was at the grocery store. I probably spent 10, 15, 20 minutes at the grocery store, and I had three people just come up to me and start either talking or asking questions, and it was really cool. It was really neat because I mean how often have you gone down to a grocery store and have people come up to you and just start talking?

Don:

Well I can see why it would have been extremely rare to you because you’re always kind of about you don’t have a lot of friends. So when a lot of people started talking to you, you’re were happy.

Jeff:

I was like oh, a person.

Don:

I scare everybody, and they run away from me. A lady at the chiropractor’s office yesterday came around the corner, and she looked back at the secretary and said, “I don’t want to sit in there. I want to be further away from that guy.” And I’m like geez. I’m not that crepey looking. So yeah, I can really dig on how you’d like other people to start connecting with you because now you’ve got more friends, dude. But do you think maybe it’s because everybody’s in a little panic mode? There’s lot of stuff going on in the world right now.

Jeff:

Yeah, a lot of stuff going on.

Don:

A lot of scare, a lot of fear.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

I even felt lost this weekend. I couldn’t go to church. Everything’s different there because of this thing, so I felt lost and lonely for a few days there, trying to figure out how to reconnect with the world.

Jeff:

Well we’re back here today, right. And it’s you and I.

Don:

Yeah, chatting it up.

Jeff:

Yeah. Now you’re not going to hear these girls on the podcast, but Jen is here sort of running all the equipment here. You can even say hi Jen, from a distance. Say hi.

Jen:

Hello.

Jeff:

See she’s there. And Annie is joining us by this thing that I think is called Zoom. Oh. So she’s nodding her head up and down. Yep, I’m there. But what’s cool, Annie has a little sniffle, a cold and she’s actually in another city about a hundred miles away, but she can join us by Zoom. And we’ve had a good conversation this morning for about gosh, 20, 30 minutes. And so three of us are in the room and another one of us is a hundred miles away on the computer. But hey, got to love technology, right.

Don:

Yeah, and it works. I mean you would think a country hillbilly like me wouldn’t know about Zoom, but I’m on them a couple times a week with some home based businesses that I do. And I think this is going to be a way for people to possibly connect, especially on this church side of thing. We just got a letter in an email yesterday that we will be live streaming until further notice because of the state laws and stuff. And I know I was watching some videos last night, some farmer friends of mine that’s all the way out in Ohio, from the Illinois [inaudible 00:00:03:45]. We all know that.

Don:

So yeah, I think this is going to be another way to also … I’m going to encourage people that do listens to us on Journey to share with their friends to come and connect with us on Journey and listen to what we’ve got to offer the next three or four weeks. We hope the contents going to be good. And you’re not going to be able to get it with your normal social groups, so come hang out with us for a while. We’re pretty funny.

Jeff:

So today we’re going to talk about how to do that, how to connect and how to keep those relationships going, and actually maybe to even build some new relationships that are even deeper than relationships that you’ve had in the past. So yeah. So we’ll just kind of jump in a little bit. I think let’s go back a little bit, and I just love hearing your story, Don, and just how you’ve gone from disconnection to connection over the last year or so. And for instance, we were talking to your brother here a few weeks ago, and just really cool there, how that’s gone deeper. But it seems like every time we talk about … when we’re just talking, you are giving me another story of just how you’ve just sat down with somebody, how maybe you’ve had a family meeting and you guys have gotten closer. And then what you were saying just here a few minutes ago of just how distant it seems right now, right. I mean we’re seeing firsthand just how, because of what’s going on, there’s just a lot of distance.

Don:

Well, there is, like I said, with the emails just put out that we are no longer going to be there. I’ve only been actively back involved in church for a little over a year and a half. And prior to that I sat in my little home/shed for two and a half years drunk every day. We’ve done other podcasts. I have severe history of alcoholism. So to walk out of that, get better, connect God, and get right with the coaches from Journey, that was one of the biggest blessings to me is to connect with two fellows that want to come up alongside you. Yeah, I’m a guy, I’m going to go ahead and say it. They loved on me, dude. They cared about me, and they want to help. So for a year and a half now, everything’s been rolling pretty smooth.

Jeff:

And we’ve talked about that before too. The whole idea of more than just that conversation about your favorite football team, right. More than that conversation about, “Hey, what’s that basketball team doing?” Or what kinds of things are going on at work?

Don:

All we talked about was the Cubbies. I’m like I’m sick of all this. I lived in Illinois for years, and Gary would laugh, and he just rubbed me with it every week about the Cubbies. So we had fun, like buddies. It wasn’t just a coaching thing. We became, still to this day, friends. But when you spin off of that, like we were talking earlier, so I’m a single guy, so I ask myself when I hear the news about not being able to attend my local church anymore, been on a really good groove here for a year and a half, okay. I’m a big strong boy. I can handle things emotionally, but maybe not so much. I see a counselor. I have anger issues. I have a tendency to fall back on alcoholism. So if I wanted to let my life spin out of control right now, and I think there’s so many people out there, guys, I really do that are going, “What do we do? What do we do?” Well, and I’m not saying this that people would feel sorry for me, but how do you suppose I feel?

Don:

Went from drunk for two and a half solid years, reconnect to the world, plug into a large church that I had known in the past briefly, get actively involved, and now, based on the chaos, or whatever you want to call it, going on in America and all over the world, I’m forcefully being shut off from the things that I like to do. So what am I going to do? Whether you’re Christian or not, matters not to me, but I’m going to hone in on reading my Bible, and I’m going to work extra hard at staying connected with Jesus because I don’t have places to go now. And here’s a little catch 29. What if I were to just be discontent and full of fear again? That could lead right back to drinking again.

Don:

So I’m doing double time here for myself, but I also want to make it clear that I know there’s single dads, single moms out there, even married couples that are kind of, “Oh, the kids are all here. What are we going to do?” Well we’ve got to adapt. We’ve got to adjust. And we have here, at Journey Coaching, we’re going to try to bring you good content every week, please listen and see if you can pick up some little rabbit runs to follow along with us so that we can help encourage you in these stressful times. I mean they are stressful for the average person.

Jeff:

Yep. And the times are typically … There’s stress anyway, right. I mean it’s just we have more things to sort of cushion us. We’ve got that next basketball game, that next tournament series, we’ve got that thing that sort of can distract us. So let’s face it, we’ve just got less distractions right now, and so what can we do? And so it’s more than the podcast. So here’s the thing. What can people do? Well, we can all have those intentional growing healthy relationships. Well, how do we do that? At Journey, we’ve invested the last … It’s over five years of really developing some good core content. And it’s so simple. It’s so simple. It’s seven sessions, and it’s just a guideline. It’s just a guideline to help people to really look at themself in the mirror, and look at their strengths, look at areas for improvement, look at their worldview, and to sit down with somebody and to share your story guy to guy, girl to girl, couple to couple, but a way to really just say, “Here’s my life ,and here are a few steps that I can take to get better.”

Don:

It’s interesting you say that because you know I’m coaching a 16-year-old boy.

Jeff:

Yeah, you just jumped right into it.

Don:

Every Sunday.

Jeff:

Yeah, you jumped right into that, didn’t you?

Don:

And it’s so amazing, over the last couple of weeks, Jeff, the things we were talking about, just simple day-to-day life things, but it always kind of keeps falling back on his faith level. And I just tell him all the time, even last Sunday, I said, “I’m envious of you because you were born and raised a Christian child. My silly hillbilly brain didn’t get it completely until he was 59 years old. Look how much catching up I got to do.” And he smiles and laughs at me. And then in the other hand he goes, “Don,” he said one day, he said, “Geez, I feel bad for you. I mean I would have hated to miss out on what I’ve already seen,” and he’s only 16 years old, you all, and I’m 61. And I’m like, “I’m jealous of you, dude. You got a advantage on me.” But as we sit and talk once a week in our little journey session, it’s just interesting to see what this boy, I got to be careful how I say this if we need adding [crosstalk 00:11:57].

Don:

The average 16-year-old that I run across or bump into, and I have a nephew that’s 17, and as I sit and talk, there is such a difference of mindset between two boys, similar age, but based on their background and their faith, unfortunately they’re as opposite as water and oil. And that intrigues me so much that when it comes to faith-based boy, born and raised, other boy, no, not at all, just kind of went through the motions because parents encouraged or maybe leaned on him to do that, but he never grasped any of it.

Jeff:

And that’s you, right? You’re talking about yourself there.

Don:

No, I’m talking about another boy equivalent to the same age as the one I’m-

Jeff:

Oh, okay. I got you. Oh, okay. I see what you’re saying. I got to what you’re saying. Yeah.

Don:

Yeah, two boys, same age, but the difference is water and oil. Raised, believes in Jesus, other one pushed into it against his will.

Jeff:

Right, I got you.

Don:

And doesn’t have any of it, doesn’t have any knowledge of it.

Jeff:

Okay, right.

Don:

So another reason to hopefully connect with us here at Journey because we’re-

Jeff:

Right. And the thing about Journey is it is regardless of where somebody’s starting at. So it could be somebody, it could be that person regardless of age, that’s really far from God and really doesn’t even know if they believe in this at all. Or it could be somebody that’s been around it all their life. It doesn’t matter. Again, it’s about those connections, and it’s about getting outside oneself.

Don:

I’m going to let you talk about connections. Forgive me for saying this Jeff, but we talk a lot, and you and I have had personal conversations about the term coaching, coaching, coaching, but right now, I don’t know, this thought just came to me, isn’t our main goal here at Journey Coaching … Due to the circumstances in our economy, don’t we want to just be your friend?

Jeff:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:00:14:00].

Don:

We just want to make friends with you right now. You can just hang out with us, listen to our podcast, and just be our friends. And then later on, we all know that this too shall pass, they say, and this will settle down, but while we’re in these kind of dire conditions, why don’t we all … why don’t you all listen to our podcast, tell your friends, and let’s just make buddies here on podcasts. And when all this settles down, then we could go back to, “Hey, now we’d like to sit down and coach with you.” And you might know some people out there as listeners and go, “I think I’m pretty good, but so-and-so, Sally or Bob over there, I think they could use some journey coaching.” Good. Invite them to the podcast, let them listen to what we’re doing.

Jeff:

But what you say is interesting because that is typical where there’ll be a time where there’s some anxious, be like oh yeah, I should do this. I’ll wait until things settle down. I would suggest that how about when there is that time, when there’s that anx, jump in and do something about it. And that would be a great time right now to jump in, and here’s what you can do. Grab a friend. Grab a friend that’s a few steps ahead of you, and this can be somebody you trust, somebody you respect, and just say, “Hey, I’ve heard about this Journey Coaching thing. Let’s talk about that.” They can go to journeycoaching.org. They can see what the whole idea’s about, not only a podcast but the actual seven sessions. And then you can just order those seven sessions, and sort of grab a friend, grab a couple of books, and get started. And you can get started over coffee.

Jeff:

And if you don’t even want to get together, like we’re doing again today here, I mean we’ve got Annie sitting on this Zoom thing, and she’s communicating. And so in fact I got to read her a question because I got to tell you how cool this is that this actually works. So as we’re talking, and again, she’s not in the room, I just want to again show this idea that you don’t have to be necessarily in the room, she says, “So how are podcasts a jumping board for connecting?” Well, the big thing that the podcasts do is they will sort of provide that fertile ground of what we’re talking about. They sort of encourage this idea of healthy conversations and what that’s about. So we’re just trying to sort of create an environment that just is good fertile ground for some relationships to start.

Don:

I think it’s key, those that we were saying a minute ago, I want to make sure that people are getting that right now, it’s just if you’ve been listening to any of our podcast, please, please invite a buddy, or a friend, or a neighbor, say, “Hey, I’m listening to this, and their content’s pretty good.”

Jeff:

Yeah, listen to it also, right. Yeah.

Don:

Yeah. “Hey, do you want to listen to this?” And tell your friend, neighbor, for some of you all, I’m going to go so far as to say you’re married, and invite your wife.

Jeff:

Oh, what a concept.

Don:

Sit on the couch.

Jeff:

Oh, hold it.

Don:

Listen.

Jeff:

Hold it, I got to take a deep breath here. Wow.

Don:

Since NASCAR, it’s only going to be televised for the next two weeks. So yeah, there’s a lot of people that are going to have to sit at home with their wives and do something.

Jeff:

That’s right.

Don:

They should listen to Journey Coaching.

Jeff:

And unless you want to watch repeats of games from years past, actually yes, [crosstalk 00:17:33].

Don:

Hook up. Make a friend with your spouse.

Jeff:

What a concept, right.

Don:

I’m just being stupid.

Jeff:

Anyway. But yeah, so again, we just invite you to take that step. If you want to grow, we to help.

Don:

Amen.

Jeff:

And what a great time to start doing that. So just to wrap up, let’s keep it really simple. Go to the journeycoaching.org website. On there you can find information on the actual seven session coaching process. The cost is very low. If you’re in a situation where basically you’re just buying the booklets, and just we can answer questions, through the journey website, you can ask us questions as you’re going through it. We have a audio three session training, a little program there where you can go through and get some input on how to … And you were even a part of that little training.

Don:

Yeah, all three of them. So Terry just gave us tips and helps on how to be a good coach. What are you looking for? So you’re a little well versed at it.

Jeff:

So this is not rocket science. Again, coaching, you’re not-

Don:

If it was, I wouldn’t be here.

Jeff:

You and me both, buddy. So this is not one person is the expert and you’ve got to take some big class or something, it’s just a matter of, again, developing those intentional relationships. So listen to some podcasts, order some of the material, and just grab a friend and give it a shot. And here’s the thing, personally, for me, if I’m sort of bothered, or I’m just into myself too much and worrying how’s this going to happen, or what’s happening, or what can I do, sometimes, or oftentimes, virtually all of the time, it helps to get outside myself to connect with somebody else. It’s just true for … We’re just wired like that. We’re wired for those relationships. And so this is a good way to just do that intentionally, and to do it through a little seven session way that is really designed over five plus years, a lot of people have been through this where it does just really help you to grow, and we do want to help. So thanks for listening. Any closing thoughts that you have, Don?

Don:

Just like I said, again, probably repeating myself here, but brother said it best, I think. Just dawned on me last week, Jeff, when he said, “I just wanted to be there and listen to what he had to say. I couldn’t fix him. But I wanted to listen.” So we’re in some stretchy, sketchy times right now. And if you need somebody to just listen to you, we’re here. Reach out to us.

Jeff:

Listen. And then get beyond just being sort of stuck in the times, and really use this to look at this as a huge, huge opportunity to invest in yourself, to invest in another person, and to do something different. This material is unique, it’s simple, but to do something different and to grow.

Don:

Exactly right.

Jeff:

Very cool. Well, thanks again for listening. This is been a great conversation with Don. Don, always enjoy chatting with you.

Don:

I love the invites.

Jeff:

I always enjoy it. So at Journey, we’re interested in the conversations that matter to you in your relationships. You want to grow. We want to help, not only with podcasts, but we encourage you to get into the one-on-one coaching relationships, and a good place to start is with that seven session coaching booklet. And you can find out more about that at journeycoaching.org. Have a good day everybody. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Relationship WorkShop: Disagreements

On this episode of the podcast, Jeff and Terry host a mini relationship workshop focusing on disagreements within our relationships. In this workshop, you will learn that you get to choose your response to a disagreement. They also offer insight on how to choose a response when all you want to do is react.


Transcription of the Podcast


Jeff:

Again, I’m looking out here at a beautiful blue sky. Now I can look at that blue sky and I can say a couple of things. I can say, “It is gorgeous out there, it’s a bright sunny day.” Or I can look at this flag waving in the background going, “Oh, I can tell by the direction that flag is waving, there is a cold north wind out there,” and I can pick, right? I can go, “Wow! I’m going to go outside and I’m going to freeze because it’s really cold out,” or I can go outside and go, “Wow! It’s a bright sunny day.”

Jeff:

(singing)

Jeff:

Hey, welcome back to another Journey Podcast and we are excited to talk about relationships today. In fact, we’re going to do a little relationship workshop because relationships are important. My name is Jeff. I’ve got Terry here. Terry is a licensed full-time counselor-

Terry:

Hi.

Jeff:

And deals with… Tell us a little bit about the sort of what you do during… What is your day job? You’re dealing with a lot of people walking in and they have some really deep weeds, relational stuff going on, right?

Terry:

Oh, yeah. I would say 90% of the time it’s a relationship workshop in my office.

Jeff:

Right.

Terry:

We’re working on different kinds of relationship issues that show up. We may have other things we’re talking about like addictions and affairs and things like that, but ultimately, it’s about relationships. It’s about that sticky icky kind of stuff that happens between two or more people.

Jeff:

Well, and the thing is for you and other counselors, the thing that I always sort of find interesting sitting back on the sidelines is that, and tell me if I’m off base on this, but a lot of people really wait and really get into a lot of hurt and a lot of struggle and it’s like, “Oh, what is the very last thing I can do on the planet to do… Oh, okay, I’ll go to a counselor.” Right?

Terry:

I had a couple come in one time years ago and one of them said… I asked what brought them here and they said, “Well, we sat down with a phone book,” how long has it been since we had phone books, right?

Jeff:

Yeah.

Terry:

They sat down with a phone book and they had one page open to counselors and they had one page open to divorce lawyers and they were trying to decide which page to look at.

Jeff:

Wow! Wow!

Terry:

It had gotten that far in their relationship. And so I think you’re right. I think in a lot of cases it gets to that point where we have tried everything we can possibly think of, nothing’s working, we either have to reach out for somebody or we have to break it off.

Jeff:

Right. Right. So the hope is here with the Journey, and there’s a lot of hopes that we have around Journey, but one of the hopes is that people will engage with these podcasts and that they can actually get some good counsel, although this isn’t counseling, this is coaching. But if we have people like you on the podcast, we can actually get some very good tips and some help to navigate some of these relational issues.

Jeff:

So yeah, let’s dive in here. And like I say, just sort of have this as a little mini relationship workshop here and talk to folks that hopefully aren’t in the deep weeds yet. So why don’t we start out, Terry, why really would we even want to address our relationships? Why would we want to be kind, gracious, to one another? After all, if I’m here and you’re there, why don’t we just go at each other and the last one standing wins?

Terry:

Well, yeah, you could try that. How’s that working for you?

Jeff:

Not real good, right. So…

Terry:

No, I think that’s the approach a lot of people have is they’re at such loggerheads by the time they walk in that there’s so much anger and there’s so much negativity and there’s so much… there’s just a lot of hurt underneath the anger. I tell people, I see anger as a secondary response, the secondary emotion. We don’t get angry usually unless we’re hurt and we feel somebody is responsible and those are the components that make us really, really angry.

Terry:

And then anger is a defense mechanism. It’s something we try to do to regain some of the power we feel like we’ve lost by being hurt. And so we get angry and it’s kind of like… One example I’ve used a lot of times, it’s just using anger, especially in a marriage or in a tight relationship, a good relationship, or a relationship you’re trying to make healthy, it’s kind of like using a hammer as the only tool in your toolbox.

Jeff:

Ouch!

Terry:

If you had to replace a light switch, would you grab the hammer?

Jeff:

Right, no.

Terry:

Well, no. You [crosstalk 00:04:45]-

Jeff:

Well, that’s right. Because I’m so terrible with tools I wouldn’t even know what to do with… But, yeah, right. You want to start-

Terry:

You want to start with a screwdriver-

Jeff:

Right, the right tool for that.

Terry:

You want to find another tool. A lot of times by the time people come into counseling they don’t have any other tools, the only tool they have in their toolbox is hammer. And that’s just not working.

Jeff:

Right. Right. And so healthy relationships, and let me just underline this here. We could just land on this and then just hit the pause button. But really healthy relationships are so important. If you’re not in one now, if you can think back to when you were and just the joy that comes from that and the energy that’s gathered versus the bucket draining-ness of unhealthy relationships, this is really important.

Terry:

Right.

Jeff:

Really important stuff.

Terry:

Well, and I think what happens a lot of times when two people, whether it’s a man and wife or whether it’s a brother and sister, it’s a parent and a child, when two people come in to talk about their relationship, a lot of times what I see is a lot of finger pointing. If he would just change, if she would just do something different, if he would just stop doing something, then this would be okay. And a lot of times I feel like one person is dragging another one in and they’re saying, “Here, change her, change him.”

Terry:

The reality is it takes two people to make this relationship work or not work. And it’s not just one thing or another, it really gets down to kind of what we’ve talked about is how do you talk to each other? Do you use that hammer of anger? Are you feeling justified in just being angry all the time? And how is that working for you? How’s that affecting the other person and how are you feeling? When you spend a lot of time being angry, I’ll just ask you back, “When you spend a lot of time angry, how do you feel? Energized or worn out?”

Jeff:

Right. Exactly. Well, and I think as you’re talking, it’s really easy and it always has been easy to avoid healthy relationships, right? It’s really, really easy to just be mad and move on kind of thing. And especially with social media, it’s made it a lot easier to just sort of get that jab out there.

Terry:

Right.

Jeff:

And so it seems like, and this is just what I found in my own life, is I’ve got to really put that relational piece as a priority and say, “Yeah, it really is worth the energy that it’s going to take to do this, but it is going to take some energy and it’s going to take some time.”

Terry:

Right. Well, you have to answer for yourself that question of, why do I even want to do that? Why not be angry? Why not be compassionate? At least I gain respect. If I’m angry, it feels like people are respecting me. But the reality is they’re not, they’re just avoiding you because you’re angry.

Jeff:

So what can you do if you’re angry, if someone’s angry consistently, but they don’t know how to change. That’s just their mindset, that’s just their life, right? They’re just an angry person. What are some tips there?

Terry:

Well, I think it depends a lot. If somebody comes into my office and that’s the situation, I have to do a lot of assessments. So the counselor in me just kind of do a little alarm thing that says, “Hey, we’re not going to be able to solve that here.” If somebody is as angry as you’re talking about, I really suggest that they find somebody to meet with, find a licensed counselor, a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, whoever you want, but really sit down and say, “Hey, I am angry all the time and I don’t know what to do about it.”

Jeff:

So really it’s that conversation before the conversation that you’ve talked about in the past, right? To really kind of come to a point where you can sit down with somebody else and to start having some healthy conversations.

Terry:

Right. If somebody is just feeling angry a lot and it hasn’t gotten to that point, I guess my encouragement would be, do something about it now because it will get to that point. It becomes a habit and it becomes a way. Our brain has pathways to it and the more we do something, it’s like a muscle. If you exercise one arm and not the other, what would happen?

Jeff:

It’ll be a little lopsided-

Terry:

You’d be lopsided. One arm would be a lot bigger and the other arm would get smaller. The brain neurons kind of work like muscles do too. You use them or you lose them.

Jeff:

Right.

Terry:

And so the more angry we are, the more angry we become. And so I think it’s really, really important for people to take notice of that and say, “No, wait a minute. I’m finding a pattern here. I’m getting more and more angry when I watch TV or when I talk to this person or when I do that.” And, again, if anger is a secondary response, anger management really doesn’t work. You can sit there and say, “Okay, I’m not going to act out in my anger,” but ultimately the anger is just going to keep eating you up inside. You’ve got to find out what’s causing that anger.

Jeff:

Right. Now, I’m just going to go a little shallow dive here. Terry, takes a deeper dive. I’m going to go a little more shallow dive is, I would just point out from, again, a simple perspective, if you’re angry, if there are things bothering you, if you are always sort of looking at the bucket of being half empty, half full, half empty. Again, I’m looking out here at a beautiful blue sky. Now I can look at that blue sky and I can say a couple of things. I can say, “It is gorgeous out there, it’s a bright sunny day.” Or I can look at this flag waving in the background and going, “Oh, I can tell by the direction that flag is waving, there is a cold north wind out there.” And I can pick, right? I can go, “Wow! I’m going to go outside and I’m going to freeze because it’s really cold out,” or I can go outside and go, “Wow! It’s a bright sunny day.” And so that’s just something that I do because it’s like you can pick, right?

Terry:

Right. And I think that’s a key point that you’ve said is you’re aware of your ability to choose. A lot of people aren’t. A lot of people don’t realize that. They just react to the anger. They just see it the one way and they don’t realize there are other ways to see it.

Jeff:

Right. Right. Well, and let’s hit that point and land on that for a minute. That people do have the ability to choose, right? You can pick that emotion.

Terry:

Right.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Terry:

And a lot of times people don’t understand that. Now, if the anger is coming from some deep hurts and there are some deep hurts out there, then I would encourage people to address those. We don’t want to. And I tell some of my clients, “Emotional hurts, emotional wounds feel the same way to our brain as physical ones.” And so when I’m asking somebody to kind of dive into that emotional hurt and figure out, “Why does that hurt me so much? Why is that bothering me?” In a sense, it’s kind of like if I told you to put your hand on the stove and then to keep it there, I know it hurts, but keep it there and try to figure out why it hurts.

Jeff:

Right.

Terry:

You wouldn’t do that. That would be stupid. Please don’t do that. But if you think about it, as far as your brain is concerned, I’m asking you to do that with the emotional hurt. It’s like typically we have something that really, really hurts us. We’re bothered because somebody said something unkind or they didn’t say they loved you before they walked out, we’re really hurt by something. And instead of staying with that hurt and figuring out, “Why that bothers us so much,” we jump into anger and then we try to get them back or we try to do something to rectify the situation, but it’s not working.

Jeff:

Right. Right. So how does somebody choose? So we can choose, that’s an option, we can pick. How do we choose when we just don’t feel like it?

Terry:

I think the first thing is to remind yourself there is a choice. I have chosen to be angry. Why did I choose to be angry? A lot of times we just feel like it’s we’re just reacting versus responding. I think that’s a really key point when we’re looking at things. When something happens, ask yourself, “Am I reacting or am I responding?” Responding takes a few minutes longer, a few seconds longer. A response is what I want to do, a reaction is what happens. Just kind of, it’s almost that animal instinct in us that comes out. A response is something we take a little bit of time for and we choose a decision, we choose a response, versus I just reacted angrily or a knee jerk kind of reaction.

Jeff:

So what if you’re in a conversation with somebody, and this could be about anything. It could be about politics. We had a podcast on politics here a while back. It could be about just something that’s going on in your life, whatever, but you’re responding with anger. What can you do?

Terry:

So you’re feeling the anger inside.

Jeff:

Right.

Terry:

You just had a conversation with somebody. Let’s say you’re talking with your husband or your wife or your somebody, your significant other, and this person has now said something that has offended you. A reaction would be maybe to kick them under the table. That’s not a good idea.

Jeff:

Bruised shins [crosstalk 00:00:13:57]-

Terry:

Because you’re angry, you’re angry. A response would be to say, “Whoa!” Again, this is an internal dialogue and you’re saying, “Whoa, wait a minute. Man, I’m really getting angry about something that they said. Where is that coming from?” Well, again, it only takes a second or two to kind of do that internal processing, that internal dialogue. And then my response might be, “Oh yeah, when he said, or she said, this, I took offense at it because I felt like it was a slam. I felt like it was an insult to me.” So-

Jeff:

So slowing down, right? Because it’s almost like a tit-for-tat sometimes, and it’s just slowing down, a little breath, taking a few seconds. It could be uncomfortable because it hasn’t been done before, it’s not that tit-for-tat. It’s just going, “Okay, let me get a little perspective here, a little breathing room, a little sense of where to move on next.”

Terry:

Right. Well, and then the reaction might be, “Okay, I don’t want to come across angry. That’s a decision I’ve made in my head. I want to come across as I’m curious.” So what I tell my clients is, it’s really, really hard to be angry and curious. Try it sometime. If you’re angry, it’s usually because you’ve come to a decision you’re not curious anymore. So it’s really hard to be angry and curious. So get curious and say, “I’m wondering why that affected me so badly. I’m wondering why he said it or she said it,” and then out of the curiosity then form your question and the question or the comment you might want to make back to that person is, “Wow! That really hurt. It sounds like you’re just really… that was quite the insult.”

Jeff:

Right.

Terry:

You’re telling that person the stuff that’s underneath the anger, you’re telling that person, “This is what happened.” You’re not giving it to them out of anger, you’re giving it to them out of curiosity. “Hey, why didn’t you just say that? That really hurt.” What do you think your response would be if somebody said that to you?

Jeff:

Well, yeah, you’re going to be like, “Oh, okay. Well… ” I mean, there’s just more of that sort of a fertile ground to cultivate some discussion.

Terry:

Right. Because then as a receiver on that end of it, you’re probably going to lean in and go, “Oh wow! I didn’t… ” Half the time it might be, “Why didn’t you?” “No, I never meant that. That was a slip of the tongue. I’m so sorry.” Or it might be a rare thing where you might say, “Yeah, I kind of did because I was angry about something else.” And then you get into this discussion about what’s really going on under the surface.

Jeff:

So a key word is curiosity, isn’t it?

Terry:

Yeah. Because otherwise a reaction might be, I get angry and say something back to you and you get angry at me and now we’ve got our fight or flight syndrome going between the two of us and we’re going to get into a really good fight.

Jeff:

Right. So a little curiosity, a few deep breaths can do amazing things, right?

Terry:

Absolutely. I think that works on a lot of different levels. We talked before on another podcast about politics and what happens, and I think this is one of those things, again, staying curious is one of the best ways to stay out of the anger zone.

Jeff:

Right. Right. And, yeah, and we don’t have as much as we think sometimes we have got the solution for the problem. There’s curiosity getting more input to be open. That really is a sign of maturity, right?

Terry:

Oh, sure.

Jeff:

Higher emotional intelligence and maturity, and it seems like we would all like to be a little bit more mature and…

Terry:

Well, it helps us to respond rather than react.

Jeff:

Right. Right. Well, thanks for joining us today on this podcast. Again, we want to talk about those topics that are really important to talk about and at the core of Journey are healthy relationships. At the core of Journey is that seven session coaching process where you can find someone, a guy to guy, girl to girl, couple to couple, and sit down and just start having some very good conversations to really focus on yourself as you look at yourself in the mirror and say, “Hey, how can I bring a better version of myself to the world?” And we will promise you, promise, promise, that if you do the work, it’s worth it. That your bucket will be filled, that you will be happier, healthier, find more peace, patience and joy and that the people around you will also find more peace, patience and joy.

Jeff:

Yeah, so plug in to Journey and it’s a start to start building those relationships. You can contact us in many different ways and just reach out to us through the website at journeycoaching.org, and we appreciate you listening. And Terry, thank you so much for coming out of the counseling office and sharing some insights that… Again, you’re seen every day, right?

Terry:

Oh, yeah, and I love doing this. I love being able to kind of share some things with people on a broad scale so they can kind of work on their relationships. So I can only see one person at a time.

Jeff:

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So let’s do the coaching thing. Again, counseling is great, but a lot of us do the coaching thing so we might not have to necessarily go into the counseling office.

Terry:

There you go-

Jeff:

All right.

Terry:

Trying to put us out of business.

Jeff:

There you go. Thanks for listening.

Jeff:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org, and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Jeff:

(singing).

ENCOURAGEMENT FOR THE BUSINESS OWNERS WHO WANT TO SHARE THEIR FAITH AT WORK.

Have you stopped to think about the legacy you are creating? Part of the legacy that we are leaving is how we talk about God in the environments that we are in the most. Today on the podcast, Jeff, Don, Doug and Sarah offer encouragement to business leaders who want to share their faith at work but aren’t sure where to start.


Transcription of the Podcast


Doug:

It’s not about that. And that’s the sad thing is that getting people to have this grand understanding that it’s not about what we have here today. It’s not about what we have five years from now. It’s about the legacy that you’re creating and where you are going to be when all of this is over with.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

Doug:

My name’s Doug Wagner, your guest host for this edition of the podcast, sitting with Jeff Carlson. Jeff, good afternoon.

Jeff:

Good afternoon.

Doug:

Thanks for allowing me to take this chair.

Jeff:

Thank you for just jumping into that chair.

Doug:

This is a wonderful idea. Don Evans along with us as well. One of the most fabulous voices I’ve ever heard. Don.

Don:

How you’re doing today, Doug?

Doug:

Wonderful.

Don:

Glad to be here, which I hope to learn some stuff.

Doug:

Could you say the alphabet to me?

Don:

A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

Doug:

And that’s the show, right there. That’s all it is. And Sarah Banowetz, whose studios we’re in, Banowetz Marketing and Communications. Thanks for freeing up your studios.

Sarah:

Thanks for being here.

Doug:

Well, okay, it’s something, especially this time of year when we get toward the big game, you have national championship games. March Madness is right around the corner. You have lots of athletes. You’re going out there and these athletes at the end of the game, they say, “Well, first of all, I want to thank my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ for helping me become the person that I am today.” And you get a lot of people kind of look funny at them. They used to look more funny at them until Tim Tebow came along.

Don:

Amen.

Doug:

Saw somebody who is really kind of the real deal. The question that we’re dealing with in this podcast today is, what if you took that same passion for Christ and you transferred it into a boardroom or into a business setting? Now, we were talking before about being at a conference where you had a number of people up on stage talking about what makes their company special or different, things like that. And the one thing that didn’t come up, Jeff, was…

Jeff:

The whole spiritual part, because I was really looking forward to this. This was a conference. It was about a very short compressed like hour and a half.

Doug:

Right, right.

Jeff:

It had all these-

Doug:

Panel talk.

Jeff:

Yeah, panel talk. All of these successful business people and I’m like, “Oh, this’ll be great.” We get to the end and there’s like zero mention of anyone’s faith or their spiritual walk or anything like that. And I’m like, “Well, somebody’s got to have something there.”

Doug:

Do you think it’s absent from what their life is or do you think it’s just something they may be scared of saying?

Jeff:

My sense is, it is something that people are just scared of. We don’t all have the spiritual gift of evangelism, like Sarah, so. But even beyond that, I think sometimes, there’s just so much noise out there on social media and people get attacked. And so, I think some of us, we just maybe get scared.

Doug:

Right.

Don:

Could be some men kind of feel inferior over it and just don’t want to… It’s been rough for me being a roughneck to lean into that based on all the people that I grew up with and around. They’re like, “What do you mean, Don’s going all this Jesus thing now.” And I get that a lot and I’m like, “Yeah, well, it’s pretty cool. You ought to try it.”

Sarah:

Wait, what do you mean by inferior though?

Doug:

Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask you. Explain what you mean.

Don:

Confidence.

Doug:

They feel that you’re inferior?

Don:

No. I think we do. I think we are afraid. When I first started being very public about my Christianity, even as forward as I am, I struggled with it, Doug. I mean, I just like, yeah, I don’t want to tell everybody. I mean, it’s just going to shock the whole world. But once you do it for a little bit, it’s like anything. It’d be like we talked about this morning. Now, it’s just become a habit. So now, I’m codependent on Jesus. I think that’s pretty cool.

Doug:

That’s not a bad spot to be.

Don:

Yeah, I think we’re good with that, right?

Doug:

Exactly. Sarah, what are the two things that we’re taught not to talk about in polite company?

Sarah:

Politics and religion.

Doug:

Okay. You think that might be part of it and it’s just being, that’s polite company at that point? Or is there, I mean, is there a place in the corporate environment for maybe evangelism or sharing one’s belief in Christ?

Sarah:

I think people might, business owners might be concerned that they will get sued too, in our day and age. I don’t think anyone really knows what the rules are. There is that talk about the separation of church and government, and we use that in schools. And how does that translate into the working world? I mean…

Doug:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Doug:

Legally, I mean, that’s a completely different proposition. It’s that whole concept of the first amendment as freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. I think so many people have interpreted it as it’s freedom from religion. So, they think everywhere they go, they could be free from somebody pushing it on them. But in a corporate environment, have you been around people who have said, “Hey, let’s take the opportunity to have a moment in prayer?” Or even something as benign as, “A moment of reflection so we can open up our minds and our hearts to what we’re doing today.” Have you ever been in a situation like that, Sarah?

Sarah:

I have done that at Banowetz Marketing.

Doug:

Okay.

Sarah:

I also know that… I’m part of EntreLeadership, which is Dave Ramsey’s business leadership program. And I know that at-

Doug:

Never heard of him.

Sarah:

I know that-

Jeff:

He’s on your station, man.

Sarah:

I know that Dave Ramsey does that with his company.

Doug:

Oh, that guy, he’s going places.

Jeff:

Yeah, right.

Sarah:

But otherwise, I don’t really have experience with that.

Doug:

For you, Jeff, what about you? You can maybe… And I know where you stand personally, but have you been in environments where it’s available, it’s an opening?

Jeff:

Other than my own business that I’ve… This’ll be our 28th year. We’ve certainly incorporated, very intentionally, being open to God’s leading with the people that work there, and even some outreach things. In fact, a few years ago, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Andy Stanley, but he’s got some very good teaching. And we actually invited people in to listen to some of his little teaching segments, so. But no, other than the company I own and run, no, I haven’t.

Sarah:

Well, have you? I mean…

Doug:

Yes.

Sarah:

Okay.

Doug:

Oh, yes, definitely. There’s a couple of different areas, in fact. As a leader of a nonprofit housing agency, I was… One of the things we did is, we had that act of prayer. But in addition to that, go into places where people had moved out or people were going to move in, pray for the people who left, pray for the people who came in, and this was something that was very reflective. Don, wanted to come back to you real quick because this is something where I worked with what you called yourself. I worked with roughnecks when I worked at an affordable housing agency. It took a while of seeing that, but what your experience was in corporate farming, was that a place where it was welcome at all or-

Don:

No.

Doug:

It was not something-

Don:

When I was in corporate America, in the agriculture business, all through the ’80s, ’90s and even the 2. The last go around with that was in 2012. There was nothing involved with any prayer of any kind there, just excessive amounts of drinking after work. It was horrible. If you even mentioned the word Jesus around there, you got the deer in the headlights look.

Doug:

Exactly. Well, the only way somebody would is that, “Oh, Jesus, I’ve got a headache.” And that’s when they came, from the hangover the next day. So, how do we do something about them? Is it something that we should be doing something about, is finding a way to bring spirituality into the boardroom, into the business environment? Or is it just a matter, Jeff, of saying, “I’m going to be an example for what Jesus can do in my life and by living that example, people can see it.”

Jeff:

Oh, yeah, that’s a great question. So, one of the things that I have drawn a line on is, we do not want to use Jesus to sell cars. I’m in the car business. Because I think too oftentimes then, in these kind of settings, we sort of put our faith out there and we wear it on our sleeve. And it’s like, “Well, gee, I am a good person. I’m a Christian. See? I’ve got my Jesus fish on the wall. Buy from me.” And I think that is, you really got to be careful there. For me, I’ve just drawn a line in the sand and I… In fact, people come in some time and they’ll say, “Well, Jeff, we’ve heard you run a Christian business.” And I go, “Oh, hang on here a second. If you hear that, still do your due diligence. Still walk in with eyes wide open because we don’t sell the perfect car. There isn’t that perfect car out there. You still need to do your due diligence, get it checked out,” so on and so forth.

Jeff:

So, I do think we have to be careful when and how, but I think we need to be open to those promptings. And for me, it’s after that sale’s been done or with employees and staff, to sort of sense, “Okay, what might be an opening here? And what opening might I actually walk through and be bold and clear?”

Sarah:

And I think one of the concerns that I have as I’m sitting here thinking about this is, we write the paychecks. So, how can we say, “Oh, you guys, it’s not mandatory, but we’re going to do a Bible study every Tuesday at lunchtime” or whatever. But then, I mean, you do realize that the employees are sitting there thinking, “Oh, well, that person writes my check.”

Doug:

They sign the paycheck.

Sarah:

Yeah. And so, I don’t want to manipulate or force anyone to do something that they’re not comfortable with it.

Doug:

Yeah. I think that’s some of actually, the court cases that have been in the past and they’ve had decisions one way and then they’ve had decisions another. What about, Sarah, just the whole concept of saying, “You know what? We are a Christian-based business.” Like Jeff said, “We don’t sell the biblically perfect car, but we’re going to do like every other failing Christian, which we all are. We’re going to do the best that we can to live within the rules set by the tenets of Christianity.” And regardless of the Bible study, is that fair game for employers? Is that fair game for small businesses?

Sarah:

What would that look in practical, in practice?

Doug:

In practicality?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Doug:

Okay. Walk into the office. Do you have a cross up? Do you have a religious or faith-based poster? Is it something where you do have a Bible on your desk and a Bible study that you do, whether it’s with other people in the office somewhere? Just, you do it, you example it, but you don’t make a big to-do about it.

Sarah:

Exactly. And that is what that is. I agree with that. I mean, we hit two years for Banowetz Marketing last week and we went out for-

Doug:

Congratulations.

Sarah:

Thank you, I appreciate that. We went out for brunch together. And I did, it was, I mean, the first two years of a business is incredibly difficult and I did feel compelled that we should pray over our meal. And so, I asked one of my employees to do that and she did. But even that felt like walking the line because you’re in a public place and everyone’s bowing their head and stuff and I don’t know what the beliefs are of all of my team members, nor do I ask them. But that felt like walking the line. But yeah, I mean, I have a Bible in my office and…

Doug:

And Don, I mean, when we’re taking a look at something like this, when you look at the ability for it, people are individuals. You’re also a truck driver. You have a completely different atmosphere in which to do that as well. Because there are some long-haul truck drivers I know. They’re the most competent, faithful Christians I’ve ever met because they have a lot of study time on the road that they take advantage of. And how do you, I mean, how can you on the road, how can you be an example for other people? Maybe not in a corporate atmosphere, but say for example, if you’ve got a group of people that run roughly the same route, and you see them over and over again, can you figure out a way to work Jesus into the conversation, where you’re not beating them about the head and neck with the Bible?

Don:

Oh, yeah. It was pretty simple. I’d done it for years, even before I would be what I would consider myself now, a follower of Jesus Christ. And I mean, I’ve said it in podcasts before, Doug, I’m on the Jesus train. I hear people, farmers back in the day, before I’ve gotten this devoted to Christianity, and as recently as now in the last week when his name is used in vain, and we’re not going to say it, but we all know what it is, the listeners do too, is just say, “No, he didn’t. He walked on water.” And they’re just like, “What?” I’m like, “No, think about what you just said. You used his name in vain, but the man walked on water and he died on a cross for us. So, could we just kind of skip over that from now on?” And luckily enough, based on my body size and my voice, I have not got any pushback on that other than-

Doug:

No.

Don:

They just turn and walk by me and go, “Okay, whatever, boss.”

Doug:

It’s definitely understandable. Definitely understandable. One of the things that you brought up, I think, that really sort of is, I guess, the concept, when you’re taking a look at people, the way that popular culture has denigrated, not just Christianity, but most other faiths too, in they’ve just completely diluted it down to something where people, if you say, “Well, Jesus Christ had walked on water,” “Well, that’s just because he didn’t know how to swim.” They tried to make him imperfect. With the point comes down it’s like, we’re imperfect beings as followers of Christ, and you admitted that. I admit that. But there’s an expectation, I think, of people who are Christians, who do believe that they live by the red letters. They’ve got to follow those red letters right down to the T and if you don’t, then you’re a hypocrite. What’s the difference between a hypocrite and a sinner? I mean, in reality, what is the difference between a hypocrite and a sinner?

Sarah:

Nothing, except for the fact that the hypocrite says that they’re not a sinner.

Doug:

There you go.

Don:

Yeah. Because we’re all sinners. I mean, the whole world gets the fact that we’re a sinner. Our pastor at church, our interim pastor, everybody noticed it right away. He opens every sermon in prayer, Doug. And right in the very beginning of the prayer he said, “Lord, forgive me because I know that I too am a sinner and I just hope that you open up the hearts of everybody.” He admits it every single week, four times a weekend, that “I am a sinner.” And we all are. And going back to what you said about Tim Tebow, and take the Kurt Warners of the world-

Doug:

Oh, yeah.

Don:

From Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I’ve watched Kurt, I’ve seen him in person. I shook his hand. So, what I would say and what I’ve been trying to do since October of last year, late teen, is be bold about it, and not be afraid of it. Because what do I got to lose? If there is no heaven and I’m walking around telling people about Jesus, then it doesn’t work out. At least I’ve had a lot of hope. And like Jeff says, about using Andy Stanley. I mean, I hope everybody in the world hears this. If a guy can predict his own death and resurrection in three days and pull it off, how are you going to deny that he’s not Jesus Christ, our Lord?

Doug:

Exactly.

Don:

It just blows my mind.

Doug:

Yeah. Well, let’s bring it back to the beginning here real quick. Talking with Don Evans, with Sarah Banowetz and Jeff Carlson, the original posit that we had out there was this concept that, why are businesses, why are business leaders maybe hesitant or reticent to address their spiritual relationship when they’re talking about the things that help them in their business, formulate what they do on a daily base, when you’re talking a best of kind of panel? I’m going to throw this out there and see what you think about it.

Doug:

Every business leader is expected to be perfect within their business. You look at Boeing, the big mistakes that were made here over the past year with regard to the 737 Max and some other things. They’re expected to be absolutely bulletproof. Maybe the idea that by stating your Christian principles that you are not standing on your own, but you’re standing on the shoulders of a risen savior, that makes you a little bit weaker, like you were talking about. What do you think about that idea from the outside looking in? Could that be a possibility, of why individuals are not interested because they’re not taking responsibility for their own actions? They’re leading at the foot of the cross.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Well, let’s go a step further, Doug. Let’s be honest. Totally honest. I just had a meeting with a quote-unquote leader, not a church leader, but a leader in a church atmosphere.

Doug:

Right.

Don:

We had this conversation and his comment to me was, “I don’t know that I’m based in the question you’re asking me, Don. I know I’m not really sure that I’m probably leading quite as well as I should be.” And I said, “I know.” Since I’ve been a young boy, I had been taught by old farmers. Some lead, some follow, and some just get the heck out of the way. And I just feel that leaders in corporate America don’t properly know how to lead. And they’re too afraid to step up and say, “No, this is what we’re going to do. This is the way it’s going to be. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We’re going to lead this way. This is how I want my company to run.”

Don:

You’re doing it with your people, praying over lunch. And there’s a few athletes out there, they’re doing it. And I don’t know why everybody’s afraid to just say it. It’s just like it’s killing people to say, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior, and without him, we’re all dust.” You can’t work your show and do what you do without Christ. I know you can’t. I don’t even know if you’re a believer. I just met you today.

Doug:

But here’s the thing. Some people, they don’t believe it. Or if they believe it, they just, it’s kind of in the periphery of what they do. It’s not the core of what they do. And I think that’s a big part of it.

Jeff:

Amen.

Don:

They like to pick and choose what they want to follow.

Doug:

You’re right. And we can’t stop them from doing that. That’s, I mean… So then, the question is, again, when you have individuals like that, is there something that we can do as individuals to help raise them up? Is there something we can do as individuals around them in order to empower them? Or is this just, you give them a direction, you pray, and then let Christ do what Christ does? Jeff?

Jeff:

Well, and I think a couple of things there, Doug. One is, to your point, as a first step to realize, none of us are perfect. So, if I’m a business leader and I’m out there giving a presentation on what has made me quote-unquote successful, I need to realize if I stand up and talk about my faith, I’m not perfect. There’s no perfect business person out there. So, I think just realizing that is helpful. And then the other thing is, just what Don talked about, the fear thing too, right? I mean, there’s just that fear of, okay, if I mention something spiritual, if I sort of blur the line of this separation, as much as that’s been mis-queued and mis-skewed, mis-talked about, separation of church and state.

Jeff:

But as long as I’m willing to step into that and blur that a little bit and say, “Well, this is a part of who I am, emotional, physical, and spiritual,” it’s all important. And if I’m willing to just step out there and in some appropriate way communicate that, I need to, “Okay, deep breath.” Yeah, might be a little scary. It might be. I don’t have the gift of evangelism, I just don’t do it naturally, but ought I not think about, “Yeah, I can do that. I can do that.” First couple of times, it might be a little scary.

Sarah:

Well, I think the piece that’s missing from this conversation is the why. Why would… Our business leaders doing it, why or why not? But the big why, which is, why would it even be needed that a business owner would need to say anything at all? And I had just gotten back from… Jeff made me… He is my father. So, although I’m in my late 30s, he still makes me do things.

Jeff:

It ain’t easy, though.

Jeff:

Here’s how I make Sarah do something. I say, “Sarah, don’t go do that.” “No, I’m going to help you.”

Sarah:

So, he sent me off to a leaders…

Don:

I have witnessed this happen.

Sarah:

Yeah, Don knows our relationship, Jeff and I, our relationship very well. So, Jeff sent me off to Chicago in December, this last month. And it was about city catalyst movements. Essentially, business leadership, and mixing business leadership and Christianity and impacting society as a result. And one of the speakers said that, and I did not know this, but when we’re talking about actual fishing, 90% of the world’s fish that we consume and use for products and stuff are caught in 10% of the world’s bodies of water.

Sarah:

So, let’s just say that again. 90% of the world’s fish that we use are caught in 10% of the world’s bodies of water. And so, what good fishermen know is that they go where the fish are at. So, they don’t fish where there’s not fish. And so, they were essentially saying that in today’s day and age, the fish, and this was two pastors. The speech was two pastors that I was just there at and they said that that’s where the… What would I say?

Doug:

Go to where the fertile soil is.

Sarah:

Yeah, go where the fertile soil is. And they were just calling to action pastors and saying, “You really do need to pay attention to the businesses in your church body, because you get to talk with your congregation on Sunday morning. But the business leaders are leaving your congregation on Sunday morning. And they are the ones that are interacting with the community where the fish are at, where the fertile soil is, the rest of the week. And so, you really need to take those business leaders seriously.” As a result, the global leadership summit started years ago. How many years ago, Dad?

Jeff:

Oh, my golly, yeah, decades.

Sarah:

It started as a training to train up pastors, and what it has morphed into is training for business leaders and their teams. And so, this is a nice plug for the upcoming global leadership summit in August, where business leaders can bring their teams and hear Craig Groeschel, Lysa TerKeurst, just some big names in the secular world, and in the Christian world, to teach their leadership teams and just their staff on solid leadership principles.

Doug:

Making faith a seven-day-a-week object and enterprise.

Sarah:

Yes. Yes.

Doug:

I mean, really, that’s… I mean, I guess that’s really the big thing is pulling this from the middle of this conversation is taking faith out of just a one-day-a-week on Sunday or the two-day-a-week Sunday and Wednesday, and making it seven days a week, so that not only are you exampling but you’re also creating an environment in which it can grow.

Sarah:

And Doug, I’m going to throw a question back at you then.

Doug:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Why is that important? Why is it important that we have human beings living out a Christian faith seven days a week?

Doug:

Because you have examples everywhere you go.

Sarah:

But what does that do for humans?

Doug:

What does it do for you? It gives them the ability… Well, it does a number that I could sit here. That’s a 30-minute program [crosstalk 00:23:21] itself.

Jeff:

That’s another podcast.

Doug:

Yeah. That’s a whole nother [crosstalk 00:00:23:23].

Doug:

No, but what that does is, it gives them the opportunity to not only learn but also become mentors, so that they can spread this and other people can learn. And you also can draw one another together in community because we are meant to be a people of community in Christ. That’s the whole point of it is that you can worship on your own. You ask any… John McCain, great example, that the folks who were in those cages in Vietnam, they worshiped on their own, figured out a way to worship in community by tapping out in Morse code Sunday services. And then pretty soon, it became more than Sunday services.

Doug:

We need that kind of community. We need to be able to do that, as brother and sisterhood in Christ, because that brings us closer to our creator, closer to our maker. That brings us closer to the ideals that we want to example, not only for the people that we work with, but also for the people that we live with, walk down the street with, the people that I honked the horn at because they were stopped on a green arrow and they were driving through a red light.

Jeff:

Those people.

Doug:

I am so sorry about that. I do feel bad, but it’s like I was like, “Man, I’m really going to do this right now, and I just did that.” So, yeah, I-

Don:

You never prayed they’d go to heaven, but real soon?

Doug:

So, for me, that’s it. I don’t know if that was a right or wrong answer.

Sarah:

Well, no. And Don, the community that Doug was talking about, what has that meant to you?

Don:

The community?

Sarah:

The community.

Don:

The people around me?

Sarah:

Yeah, the community and people around you and living for Christ seven days a week.

Don:

Just the raining of blessings. That’s why I’m so on fire to share the word of Christ with everybody, because not just 14 or 15 months ago, you could have considered me a homeless person, and I was in solitude. Our current message up right now is loneliness that you and Terry and I did. I just listened to it for the first night since it’s been aired, but… And here’s something that I want to throw out, not to get any sympathy, and only Jeff and Sarah know this, Doug. I physically… Andy Stanley, we use him a lot and we’re going to, I think, in Journey. The coaches that coached me, Doug, go into the Mount Pleasant prison. I’ve got certified, I can go in there with them now. And we watch Andy Stanley messages. He talks about all the time that people that are young, getting out of college, “Oh, I’ve got to hurry up, I got to get married. I got to do this because time is not in my favor.”

Don:

And he said, “You’re wrong. Time is in your favor.” I’m circling back. So, bear with me. Okay, in my case, to be very candidly and not wanting sympathy from nobody, time is not in Don’s favor because of the way I’ve abused my health. It’s very, very poor. So, I share at meetings, recovery meetings, “Please, I beg of you, don’t wait so long to quit and break your addictions.” Because then I have to go contrary to what Andy Stanley says, and tell everybody that you don’t want to be me, that time is no longer in my favor. So, what time I have left, I want to utilize that to the best of my ability, and let anyone I can touch know that I’ve had blessings. I’ve reunited with my kids two weeks ago, 13-year gap. There’s just been all kinds of stuff to answer, why I want to tell everybody. Do I to need to say anymore? There’s so many things you can receive.

Sarah:

There is. Well, and if anyone-

Don:

And we get taught in church all the time, the more you sow, the more you reap. I’m a farmer. If we planted right, we got more bushels. The more people I touch with Jesus Christ, I just keep getting more blessings. So, let’s, it’s-

Sarah:

And there are lots of episodes of the Journey podcasts where… Go on the website, search for Don, and listen to several of the podcasts that he’s talked about. He dives into that deeper.

Doug:

Now, mind you, and we’re going to wrap there. We’re not going to Wrap on a negative note, but we do have to say is that in all realism, is that, Don, it is a blessing what’s happened with you. But even if none of that happened and you still are a follower of Jesus, those blessings, the ultimate blessings are in the hereafter.

Don:

Amen.

Doug:

Where you know that you are going to be in the presence of and the glory of Jesus, right? And that’s the big one, is there are a lot of people who say, “Well, what about those Christians that don’t get those blessings? What about if I’m a business leader and I throw my whole lot in with Jesus Christ and my business goes belly up and I’m homeless and I lose my wife, my kids, and my cars, and their education, their whole future?” It’s not about that. And that’s the sad thing is that getting people to have this grand understanding that it’s not about what we have here today. It’s not about what we have five years from now. It’s about the legacy that you’re creating and where you are going to be when all of this is over with.

Don:

Well, we were never promised there weren’t going to be storms in our lives, and we’re supposed to learn from the storms and the trials that we go through.

Doug:

Absolutely.

Don:

And so, there’s a lot of ways to look at that.

Doug:

So, Jeff, what’s the best way as business leaders, when you go back to a place like that and you have these business leaders sitting in front of you, what would you like to hear when they ask, best practices, within your life, within your companies?

Jeff:

Nothing pushed, nothing forced. Just open, honest, “Hey, here’s the spiritual part of my life.” Just incorporate it in. It doesn’t have to be a hundred percent of your talk, but at least have something there, if it’s there, and just share that clearly and boldly.

Doug:

All right. If you’re listening, you’re getting a good coaching right here, because this is the kind of stuff that you’re probably looking for. Take this to heart. These are words that are just off the cuff. None of this stuff has been rehearsed. My name’s Doug Wagner. I’ve been sitting here with Sarah Banowetz, Jeff Carlson, and Don Evans. And thank you for inviting me on this edition of the journey. I really appreciate it.

Jeff:

Well, thank you so much.

Don:

Thank you, Doug. I appreciate you being here.

Sarah:

Thanks for being on.

Sarah:

You’ve listened to another episode of the Journey podcast. We’re glad that you are with us. Feel free to like and subscribe on your favorite channels. And we will talk to you later. Thank you.

Announcer:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org. And check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

Special Interview with Life101.9 Station Manager, Matt Dean

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode Jeff and Sarah interview special guest, Matt Dean, station manager at 101.9. In this interview, Matt recalls his story of coming to 101.9 and the goals of the radio station.


Transcription of the Podcast


Matt:                Our goal is just in between those songs to bring encouragement, to put something positive into people’s lives because there so much that is negative in the world today.

Jeff:                  Hi, this Jeff. We are here for another Journey Podcast and great to have a couple of actually very good communicators in the studio today. So, we’ve got Matt Deane who is the station manager at 101.9.

Matt:                Yeah. Good morning. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Jeff:                  Good morning, yes. Very fun.

Sarah:               Thanks for coming, Matt.

Matt:                Yeah, you bet.

Jeff:                  And that other voice you just heard is Sarah and she is here to interview and talk to Matt and to just basically hear a little bit about his story. So, I’m just going to let her jump right into this.

Sarah:               Well, thanks for being with us, Matt. I really appreciate you coming all the way down to Cedar Rapids.

Matt:                Yeah. It’s great. I’m just really glad for the opportunity. So, thank you.

Sarah:               So tell us a little bit about your story because you’re a newer manager. You took over for Doug.

Matt:                That’s right. So, Doug Smith was our station manager for 19 years and certainly some big shoes to fill. Just tracking back a little bit, our family’s been in Eastern Iowa for not a long time, about three and a half years now. And I came to Life 101.9 as the program director, which just basically means in charge of all of the things you hear on the radio. So the music, the stuff in between the music, everything basically fits that program director job description. And at that point when we moved here, I had been at a radio station in Wausau, Wisconsin, which is kind of right up in the middle of the state of Wisconsin, for almost 15 years and we had looked for new jobs at certain points and nothing was really a good fit and so we were just under the assumption that God was just wanting us to be in Wisconsin.

Matt:                And we were cool with that. And so we were raising our girls. And out of the blue one day, I got an email from Doug Smith. And at that moment I didn’t know who Doug Smith was. So, I literally almost deleted the email without looking at it because I thought it was a junk mail thing or something. But I opened it up and it was an invitation to come to Waterloo to potentially be the program director at Life 101.9, so that was different than junk mail message. So, we came down again. We weren’t looking, but it was an opportunity so we thought we’d come visit and several weeks later I accepted the program director position.

Matt:                So, that was something unexpected, but something we were really excited to start on. So, fast forward now a couple of years later, and I get a phone call from one of our big bosses at our home office in Minneapolis and he tells me that Doug Smith has accepted a new position in Fargo, North Dakota, at our Northwestern media station there and that he wanted me to replace him. Doug and I had talked about that. At that point, being the four- or five-year plan when Doug retired, but then this obviously turned it into more of a four-week plan when he was moving. So, this last few years have been various levels of stretching and stretching in a good way. I feel like God’s really grown me in a lot of areas. But yeah, it’s been about a year and a half now that I’ve been the station manager and I’m really enjoying it.

Sarah:               Very nice. So married with daughters. How many kids do you have?

Matt:                Yeah, so Anna just turned 14. Kate is 11 and so we’re in that teen tween whatever you call it these days land. And it certainly keeps us on our toes. Kate, our youngest is in cheer and so we’re going to competitions all over the Midwest several times during the season and Anna’s very involved in music. So, she’s in her middle school band. She’s in jazz band. She plays the piano. So, if one of us is not running Kate to all of her activities, the other one is running Anna to all of her music stuff. So, we’re busy. We’re on the move.

Jeff:                  And what’s kind of interesting is when you’re talking about your daughters’ ages is that’s kind of our daughters spread.

Matt:                Oh, okay.

Jeff:                  Close to their spread in ages. And I just think back to those years, 11 and 14, and I just go, “Oh my. Let me give you a hug man.”

Matt:                Thanks. I will accept that hug.

Jeff:                  Yeah, those are interesting times, aren’t they?

Matt:                It’s a challenge. And in fact, my wife, Jenny, and I were just talking about this last night. How different it is just because of the technology and the things that when we were teenagers that just weren’t available. I mean, we would listen to the radio in our room or pull out a cassette or a CD, which was brand new technology back then. And now they’ve got social media at their fingertips. They’ve got really the world at their fingertips with smartphones and different technology and that can be a wonderful thing, but that can also be a really scary thing too. So, trying to help our girls kind of navigate that whole world and make good choices is a challenge really on a daily basis. So, that’s the world that we’re operating in right now.

Jeff:                  Yeah.

Sarah:               So Matt, okay, you had mentioned just a lot of growing and stretching. I wanted to ask you a question about that, but I don’t know what to ask.

Jeff:                  Well, it’s interesting too because a lot of … my sense is you’re really good at what you do because people have really reached out to you, which is really cool. But that is often rare. I mean, it’s often rare in this economy, in this world today, because you can be really good at what you do but a lot of people hit those walls because companies downsize or get sold or restructure or there’s just different positions that move around and so forth. So, just the fact that doors open, I mean it’s almost good for you and in what you were doing for those in those roles that you served in because people saw that.

Matt:                Yeah.

Jeff:                  And those doors open, but it had to be challenging when all of a sudden, you said you had what you and Doug thought was like about a four-year plan moves into four weeks. What does that feel like? Because one of the things we talk about in Journey is growth and one of the things we just try to be honest and transparent and if that was me, I think just the level of angst would rise there because it’s like, “Oh, so you mean I’ve been sort of co-piloting this plane. Now I’m going to be piloting this plane?” I mean that’s got to be an interesting feeling, right?

Matt:                Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I will tell you when I received that phone call, I was actually driving from our Northwestern media station in Duluth where I was there helping out and driving home. So, I get this phone call, this great news, but this kind of scary news is shared with me and I can tell you for a fact, I do not remember the next 30 minutes of the drive. I know I was driving. I’m still here to prove that fact. I didn’t drive off the road. But just processing all of that in the moment was pretty amazing and then I remember thinking, “Oh, I need to call Jenny.” So, that was my next step. So, it was a crazy time.

Matt:                I’m super grateful for the four weeks that I had with Doug. It was kind of like station manager boot camp a little bit and he couldn’t teach me all the ropes and the things that he had accomplished over 19 years at Life 101.9 but having that time was amazing to help me hit the ground running rather than one person leaves, one person comes in and you just start from scratch, so to speak. So, I was really grateful for that. But yeah, to say it was stressful, to say there was anxiety that might be putting it lightly honestly. But I was just really grateful for the people that I had around me. Not only our team at Life 101.9 which is great and we’re super grateful to have the people that we have who I get to work with every day, but also the friends around our Northwestern media network.

Matt:                I got emails from everybody and texts from everybody saying, “Hey, whatever you need, if you have questions, let me know.” Having those relationships and having those people was super helpful to making the transition an easier one.

Sarah:               Well, and the fact that 101.9 doesn’t have a high turnover rate either.

Matt:                Yep.

Sarah:               I mean, I don’t know who the guy is, but there’s a guy on there that has been on the early morning or very late-

Matt:                Yeah. Lyle.

Sarah:               Yes, Lyle. Since I was a little girl.

Matt:                We lovingly refer to Lyle as the longest tenured part-time radio station employee in the country because he’s been doing Saturday mornings since the early to mid-seventies and he had a different full-time career that kept him busy and that he really enjoyed but he loved the opportunity. So, when I moved here, I did not know the history of Lyle and the great work that he’s done here.

Matt:                Yeah. We’re really grateful. We have several great longterm employees and that goes to show … and I’ve been here for roughly three and a half years, but it’s an amazing place and I’m just really grateful to be a part of it.

Jeff:                  Well, and the industry is really prone to turnover, right?

Matt:                Big time.

Jeff:                  Yeah. So, I mean, not only is that cool, but in the industry you’re in, it’s really unusual.

Matt:                Yeah. And radio can be an industry where if you want to move up, you have to move on, so to speak, because there’s only so many positions at any given radio station. So, that can be the case. It can be really a revolving door. So, we’re grateful for what we have in the way that God uses Life 101.9 in Eastern Iowa.

Sarah:               Well, let’s explain what Life 101.9 is because, personally, it’s my favorite radio station. I’ve listened to it since I was a little girl.

Matt:                Thank you. I appreciate that.

Sarah:               I was really happy when you guys got your higher range tower probably around 2000, 2001 because that was when I got married and moved to Ames.

Matt:                Oh wow.

Sarah:               Yeah, you guys got the longer range tower right before I moved to Ames and that was really cool.

Matt:                You could pick us up in Ames?

Sarah:               I could.

Matt:                That’s amazing.

Sarah:               Yes, I could.

Matt:                Yeah, we were really grateful for that. We had a great tower to begin with and we just were able to move. The thing with radio is power of your transmitter and how high your tower is. So, those two things. And so we have a hundred thousand watt transmitter, which is basically the strongest you can have and we are on a super high tower now. I mean, even higher than the one that we were at. So, that’s really great.

Matt:                But yeah. To explain, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, “What is Life 101.9?” So, Life 101.9 is a Christian music radio station. Our offices are in Waterloo, Iowa. We are owned by the University of Northwestern in Saint Paul, Minnesota. The Northwestern Media Network, really, if you go all the way back, has its roots to Dr. Billy Graham who helped put KTIS on the air in Minneapolis. That was the first radio station. And he had this vision to share the gospel on the radio. In the 1940s this was like breaking technology. This was an unbelievable opportunity. So, that first station went on the air in 1947 and then in 1953 KNWS AM went on the air in Waterloo, Iowa.

Matt:                So, initially we started as just an AM station, which is still on the air today. Am 1090. Then, about 10 years later in the early sixties, KNWS FM went on the air. And it’s interesting to think about. People didn’t use to listen to FM radio for music. Everything was on am. And so in the 1960s, this was again kind of experimental, kind of new. But yeah, so we have the opportunity to share encouragement and share God’s love on the air in Eastern Iowa and wherever people are, they can listen online and it’s amazing what technology can do these days.

Jeff:                  Well, and what’s interesting too is before we started recording here, you said something about, was it like 30% of the people are sort of the non-church, maybe not non-Christian, not church folks though?

Matt:                Yeah.

Jeff:                  So, that’s the other thing to people listening is, check out the station. I mean, you’re not going to hear like organ music and church music. It really is really good uplifting music that if you have cross on the face, it’s great. If you haven’t, it’s just really good uplifting music.

Matt:                Yeah, thanks.

Sarah:               Well, the branding is amazing too. I like the billboards.

Matt:                Yep.

Jeff:                  Yeah.

Sarah:               And just the audio branding too, I mean, is just solid. And it’s true that when you’re driving around the country you can tell what is without … I mean, they say it a lot, but before you hit that, you can tell that it’s a Northwestern station.

Jeff:                  So, your new tagline could be, “If you’re feeling crappy, listen to the station and then you’ll feel happy.”

Matt:                Okay. Do you have a notebook? I’m going to write that one down.

Sarah:               That was super corny.

Matt:                Well, our goal at Life 101.9 is to speak to everyone. So, something we try to think about is to communicate biblical truth in ways that everyone can understand because if you’ve … like I grew up in the church, so people who grew up in the church are prone to using churchy words that “normal” people don’t understand. And so that’s our goal. The Christian music industry has come so far. Like I said, I grew up going to church and in Christian school and looking back I’m grateful for what was there, but a lot of them, the music just wasn’t really all that good and it wasn’t produced all that well. And fast forward to today and you have artists like MercyMe and Lauren Daigle who are making strides in mainstream music, selling out big arenas. That wouldn’t happen if the music itself wasn’t good and it wasn’t connecting with people.

Jeff:                  Well, I don’t know if we want to go down this road, but wasn’t it really … if you look back, a key person to move that forward … I think of Amy Grant.

Sarah:               Yeah, I was going to say Amy Grant.

Matt:                Absolutely. She was really one of the first to make that crossover and I remember back then-

Sarah:               That was hard.

Jeff:                  She got push back.

Sarah:               She did get push back.

Matt:                Yeah. Yeah. Big time. But she was making those strides. She was making good music and that was the case. I remember that because I was in middle school, high school and going to all of a sudden those really big concerts in big arenas. So, we’re grateful that the product that we have is better. And then our goal is just in between those songs to bring encouragement, to put something positive into people’s lives because there is just so much that is negative in the world today. So, if we can share an encouraging thought or say something that just puts a smile on someone’s face … I think if you make someone laugh or you put a smile on someone’s face, you’re encouraging them. So, that’s our goal with what we do on Life 101.9 every day.

Sarah:               I feel like Life 101.9 is like an IV, an infusion, of good news and peace and purpose. And I know this is all … you guys have these little audio clips all the time where people say that the right song came on at the right moment. And I just think all the time, I mean, multiple times a week, I’m like, “Wow, there must be a lot of prayer going into Life 101.9 because it’s so true. Years ago … it’s probably, well, I mean time goes by fast, but about seven years ago, I took my first trip overseas. I’m not a morning person and I had to leave really early in the morning by myself and I was super anxious. I’m very, very, very anxious. I was going to Ethiopia for my first time and I was going with people I didn’t know very well and without any family and I had to leave home around 4:00 AM and I was just incredibly anxious.

Sarah:               I ended up taking some medicine that my doctor had prescribed once I got to Africa, so that’s how anxious I was. I didn’t know if I’d actually get on the plane and I remember before I left the house thinking “God’s with me, Jesus is with me” and I felt in my heart that like Jesus was trying to pull me along saying “I got an adventure” and it’s been an adventure since and I ended up going back three more times. What was really cool as I got in the car and every single song on 101.9 got me from Marion, Iowa to the Eastern Iowa Airport, which is a 30-minute drive. 20 to 30-minute drive and I will tell you one of the songs was Give Christmas Away, which I had never heard before.

Sarah:               Never heard before. And it was Give This Christmas Away. I was leaving right after Christmas but before Ethiopia’s Christmas. It was literally like God was holding my hand through that and that was one time that it’s just amazing. And then another time was when we were homeschooling, we went to put our kids into public school and again, so incredibly anxious about that. And we were putting them in on a Wednesday and on a Monday, two days prior, was the first PTO meeting.

Sarah:               And so I was going to go to that and I was so anxious and driving just three minutes down the road. The song that came on, which again I’d never heard before, and I can’t even remember what song it was now, but it was about, it was like speaking directly. I’d never heard it before. I really haven’t heard it very much since. But it was like speaking directly to that like something about being the light, being a light. That’s what it was.

Matt:                Wow. There it is. That’s awesome.

Sarah:               And it was the first time. But yeah, I mean, that kind of stuff happens all the time and I can’t even imagine life without 101.9. I mean, honestly since I was a little girl, you guys have just been such a huge blessing to my life.

Matt:                We meet as a staff together on Monday mornings and we pray for each other. We pray for some of the needs that people call in or send emails and ask for prayer. But that’s really a big prayer for us too because it’s our job to run a radio station and to do all the mechanical work that makes sure that there’s music in the computer system that runs all of that. But at the same time, we can’t make what you described happen. It’s our job to make sure there’s songs on the air and people think, “Oh wow, you knew.” And we didn’t know, but God knew exactly what was going on.

Sarah:               But you’re faithful. You’re faithful with putting the songs on the radio and making sure that the technology is working and that the staffing is where it needs to be and that you’re sourcing the newest music and everything like that. You’re being faithful with what you can do and God is just taking it and running with it. And it’s amazing.

Matt:                Yeah. And so that’s our prayers, that God would take our efforts and the cool thing is he knows who’s listening at any given time. I mean, he knows everything obviously, but that’s just a mind-boggling thought to us in the building. So, he knows that you needed those songs when you were driving from Marion to the airport and when you were getting ready to go to the school meeting and he’s been so faithful to help us stay on the air financially in that way. We’re just grateful to be a part of what God is doing through Life 101.9.

Jeff:                  So, I’m sitting here going, “Wow, this is just so cool. I mean, it’s just really neat.” But, again, at another level you just go, “If you’re feeling crappy, listen to the station and you feel happy.”

Matt:                Here it comes again. He’s really trying to sell that one today.

Sarah:               And I do just want to play … Matt did not ask us to do this and I want to do this just because I think it’s important. You guys just finished your Winter Share last week and I will say that Life 101 … I’m going to speak for you what I hear on the radio. Life 101.9 does not run on advertising even though you do some very minimal advertising that’s done very, very well. It runs on the support of listeners.

Matt:                That’s right.

Sarah:               And so if anyone does want to support 101.9, how did they do that?

Matt:                So, you can either go to our website, you can give at Life1019.com, or you just want to call us, you can do that too. Our phone number is (866) 515-1019.

Sarah:               And I have a funny story about this. When I was a little girl, I was probably eight years old and I called in for my first sharathon. And I said $1 thinking it was $1 a month. I still remember this moment. I remember standing in the kitchen and the announcer was so sweet and she goes, “Sarah from Solon, Iowa.” because I was living in Solon with my parents at the time. I was little. “Sarah from Solon, Iowa donated $1” and she was so sweet. I was so embarrassed because I was like, “It was supposed to be a dollar a month.” Which to a little girl … $1, $12, or whatever. But I still think about that whenever I call in. I’m like, let’s make sure that …

Matt:                Well, there’s a lot of moving parts to a shareathon. So, stuff sometimes gets misunderstood.

Sarah:               Well, I think it’s just being a little girl. Like this little, seven, eight, nine-year old calls in or whatever. And I never ended up giving that $1. I was so embarrassed and I think they sent me the little form or whatever and I don’t know what happened, but I’ve made up for that because every time there’s a shareathon, I think about that $1.

Matt:                Awesome.

Jeff:                  And along with that, you have the sponsorships with businesses, which we do with Warehouse Auto. If you’re listening to the station … again, if you’re not listening, check it out. Again, it’s great music. But if you are listening give because it’s really nice. I don’t know how most people feel. I would guess I’m going to get agreement with 99.9% of the people. It’s really nice not to hear all the ads. And as we move into this coming year, it’s going to be really nice to not hear all the political ads.

Matt:                There’ll be zero political ads. There will be zero.

Jeff:                  Your listenership is going to skyrocket.

Sarah:               Well, that’s going to help the station too because I know with other … I don’t really listen to other radio stations, but if I ever do, I just flip them as soon as the commercials come on.

Matt:                I mean, it’s a different model for sure. But we are grateful that we’ve been able to get by for literally decades basically on listener support. We do have some businesses like Warehouse Auto that we’re grateful for that help us to even out the budget and solidify things that way. But it’s not something where we have a big team of people out on the streets trying to do that. So, we’re grateful to be able to do that. I mean, I don’t think we could say that we were positive and uplifting if we had political ads on Life 101.9.

Jeff:                  Nope.

Matt:                I don’t think that would work. So, heading into election year, it will be political ad and just politics free because everybody’s got an opinion. Man, you scroll through social media. There are some opinions being shared.

Jeff:                  I love this concept though. See, now you could go to all the politicians and say, “Guys, here’s the deal. We’ll let you on the air, but you only have to say what is a positive thing that you will be doing to help the country.”

Matt:                Yep.

Jeff:                  Boy, wouldn’t that be a movement?

Matt:                Maybe that’s an angle. Who knows? I don’t know if they’d be able to do it though. It’d start there and it would just go somewhere else. So, yeah.

Jeff:                  Yeah.

Sarah:               Okay. So before we close out this podcast, I have one question for you.

Matt:                Sure.

Sarah:               Okay. Well, I want to ask what is your most unique, surprising but fun thing that you’ve been surprised with about being a station manager? Like something that you really enjoy that surprised you.

Matt:                This was really surprising to me. As a program director, which again was the job I had before I was promoted, I was in charge of picking music and that’s a fun … I mean I got to pick the music that people listen to. I mean, that’s a pretty fun job and a lot of other things too. But I didn’t ever really do budgets. Didn’t do a lot of spreadsheet work. And so in my four-week station manager boot camp with my friend Doug Smith, I quickly realized that that was going to change and I was really nervous because I didn’t have a lot of experience with Excel and all of that kind of stuff. And I have come to find that doing the station budget is really fascinating and really interesting and I really love it.

Matt:                We have to obviously make sure that all the bills are paid and they’re paid out of the right accounts and all of that and I didn’t see that coming. At our house, my wife Jenny does the budget stuff and whatever, so I don’t even really have a lot of experience with it. But when I got done doing my first fiscal year budget, I was like, “That was kind of fun.” And I just got done with my next fiscal year budget and it was still fun. And so who knew that doing radio station budgets and combing over spreadsheets all day could be fun? I did not see that one coming. So, that was a surprise.

Sarah:               So, are you going to take over for Jenny at home then too?

Matt:                Maybe that would be too much and then it would be less fun.

Sarah:               Then it wouldn’t be fun for you.

Matt:                She likes doing that so we’re going to let her have her fun. I’ll have my fun and it’ll be all good.

Sarah:               Well, thanks for being on the journey podcast, Matt. It’s been a joy to have you on.

Jeff:                  Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. And the thing is next steps, how do people again connect with, … I mean it’s probably pretty easy. You go to 101.9.

Matt:                There you go.

Jeff:                  But are there other ways to connect with you then?

Matt:                Yeah, absolutely. So, if you’re in Eastern Iowa, you can probably hear 101.9 on your radio. If not, you can listen at Life1019.com and see what we’re doing there. We’re on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Just search for Life 101.9 there and wherever you are you can tell your smart speaker to play Life 101.9. It’s just amazing what technology allows us to do.

Matt:                So, we’d love to connect with you. So thank you.

Sarah:               And your website has the most recently played songs. That’s very important. I find myself using that quite often.

Matt:                Yeah, remember that one song you didn’t-

Sarah:               Especially when you’re driving down the road at high speeds, you have to go back 30 minutes later, get the name of the song that was on.

Matt:                Yeah. Lots of good information, concerts, articles that we again, hope will grow and strengthen people in their walk with Jesus or maybe point them to him for the first time. So yeah, lots of good stuff at Life1019.com.

Sarah:               Your concerts are amazing too.

Matt:                Oh, thank you.

Sarah:               Love the concerts. Big Daddy Weave is my favorite though.

Matt:                Did you see them last year? They were here.

Sarah:               Every time they come I try to come. So, probably. I’ve been to too many. I’m sorry, I think they’re a better artist than MercyMe and MercyMe is like … you can’t say anything. You can’t agree with me.

Sarah:               So, MercyMe is huge and very popular, but I personally think Big Daddy Weave is hands down … I don’t know, just above and beyond. Their concerts are like …

Jeff:                  You’re a weaver. A weaving fan.

Sarah:               I’m a weaver. Yeah. Anyone listening to this, if you haven’t heard Big Daddy Weave, you got to listen to Big Daddy Weave and go to their concerts. Their concerts are great. They’re like church services but like the best services.

Matt:                Best picture of what that looks like, absolutely.

Sarah:               And they’re so neat. They’re just such neat people that have been through a lot. And I think that’s what it comes down to is, I don’t know MercyMe’s story, but I know that Big Daddy Weave has had a lot of health problems and issues like that and it just comes out in their music and if you’re hurting Big Daddy Weave is a great band or group to listen to. So, yeah.

Jeff:                  Well, thanks again Sarah for being a part of this. Matt, for coming in.

Matt:                Yeah. Thank you.

Jeff:                  It’s just very cool with these Journey Podcast to hear people’s stories. It’s cool to hear what’s happening at the station because you guys do reach out to a lot of people so it’s just really cool.

Sarah:               And you guys do it really, really well.

Matt:                Oh, thank you.

Jeff:                  You really do. So, thanks so much for being here. And again, if you are … it’s very simple. Just tune the dial, check it out and then after that, check out Journey Coaching at journeycoaching.org and thanks everybody for joining us today.

Sarah:               Thanks for joining us.

Matt:                Thank you.

Sarah:               Bye.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org. [Singing 00:31:31].

Loneliness Hurts

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, Sarah, Terry and Don walk through loneliness during different seasons in life. They offer encouragement to those who are feeling lonely.


Transcription of the Podcast


Transcript of the Podcast:

Terry: You know, everybody goes through a period, a short period where you’re lonely. But chronic loneliness kind of makes us more susceptible to things like depression, even Alzheimer’s disease. It lowers our immune system, it stresses our cardiovascular system, and it can actually affect how long we live, because loneliness is not something to just ignore. If you’re feeling lonely right now, do something. Reach out, call somebody, call a hotline, find a counselor, a therapist, a psychiatrist, psychologist, somebody, and just say, hey, I’m really, really lonely. Can you help?

Sarah: Welcome back to The Journey podcast. I’m Sarah Banowetz, and today we are asking the question, how do you cope with loneliness during the holidays? In the studio with me is Don Evans. Welcome Don.

Don: Hi Sarah.

Sarah: Thanks for being here with us.

Don: You’re welcome. It’s my pleasure.

Sarah: And we have Terry Carlson.

Terry: Hi.

Sarah: As a mental health counselor, it is always good to have you here.

Terry: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Sarah: Thanks for coming. So, many of our listeners may say that they’re surrounded by too many friends and family during the holidays. How big of an issue is loneliness during this time of year?

Terry: Oh, I think, you’re right, a lot of people do have, we’re inundated with invitations, parties, events and so on. But the reality is that loneliness can show up either in the midst of those kinds of things. Have you ever been in a situation where you have been surrounded by people and yet still felt very, very lonely?

Sarah: Yeah.

Terry: And I think that the other possibility too is that there are people who just are plain lonely. They’ve lost family members, they’ve lost friends, other people have moved away, and they just find themselves at the holidays without someone to invite them anywhere.

Sarah: So I would like to hear Don’s input on this.

Don: Yeah, coincidentally I just been thinking about that the last couple of weeks or so. And with my background of, as we’ve recorded on podcasts before, for those that are listening, have heard it before, that created a lot of storms in my family based on my behavior, which led to a dissolving of families, children, relatives, and things of that nature.

Don: So I’m thinking about that a lot lately. And it is a struggle for people. I mean some are afraid to speak out and some are a little bit shy of maybe leaning into a conversation when in turn, I think … What I’ve been thinking about lately is just the peace that I have with my spirituality that has grown immensely over the last six or eight months and I just recommend to people to find peace in yourself, which in turn will help you on those days. When that happens, you really have to decide where your heart is and where you lie in life yourself.

Don: For me, I’ll say for me, before I start judging, say your relatives, an aunt or an uncle or any family members, even your own children for instance, it’s not really up to me to judge what they think, whoever this person may be. Maybe it’s a coworker that you struggle with at work that just doesn’t seem to be in the holiday spirit.

Don: Well, first I would recommend for me, and it’s been helping over the last month or two, is just to look in the mirror at myself and realize that I have to find peace in me, when I look and can recognize the messes with 40 years of experience of messing up your life. And I can see those. Then before I say anything or think anything, I realize, and mentally quietly tell myself, yeah Don, but you’re a mess too. And I’m finding that very helpful, Terry. I think that’s making a difference in the way I view what I think also.

Terry: Well, I think that’s really, really good to try to look inward and just say, what part of this am I playing in it myself?

Don: Yes.

Terry: I think it also happens sometimes. Sometimes we don’t realize it, but the very things that we’re doing can actually make the situation worse. You know, a lot of times when people are lonely, they may be really just trying to avoid rejection from other people. And so they kind of avoid going to parties, or they avoid going to family gatherings and stuff for fear that, well, I’m just going to be rejected and that hurts too much. So I avoid it. And that adds to the loneliness, because you’re right, while you may risk being rejected, there’s that feeling, you don’t get the opportunity to connect with people who might actually be positive.

Don: Well, I completely agree with you, Terry. And we’ve talked about that in various Bible studies and groups that I went to over the years. Then people will say that, gee Don, I wish I could be outspoken like you and really interact. And I take that as a compliment. It’s wonderful.

Don: But I just encourage those folks to just think about where you’re at internally and mentally and don’t back up. Lean in and then people will surround you too. And with those people, I want to convey to all of those, and I do it consistently, I’d love to be alongside of you and help you. When people tell you over and over all your life that we just like the way you act. Okay. That’s all right.

Don: But I also know Terry, there’s a tremendous amount of people that are what you just described. They just don’t know how to get in there and they maybe not go to that family event or something. So I just think that we should really just go with one thing in mind. I’m going to go and have a good time, and can we all just put aside our issues for the day not let them be stressful, and worry to the fact that we just don’t even want to partake in any family events anymore. Maybe just sometimes showing up and just giving it a go and see how it works.

Terry: Yeah, just reach out.

Don: And one other thing that I just thought about is as we look at those friends, relatives or coworkers, if we want to be honest with ourselves, we don’t know what they’re going through. So we have to give them a pass too. Because I know, like I said earlier, a few minutes ago, I’ve lived in a mess most of my life. It’s still not crystal clear, and it never will be, because we’re all sinners. We’re going to make mistakes. And that’s by the grace of God, we can have the peace and show up and not be so judgmental. And I’ve said for years in those situations with families, really, I’ve truly said this, can’t we all just get along today? Come on.

Terry: Well, and Don, you’re an outgoing person yourself. We’ve talked about that before.

Don: Seems to be, yeah.

Terry: But what kind of advice could you give to somebody who maybe isn’t so outgoing and they’re feeling kind of lonely this time of year?

Don: Well, I think again, it comes down to the person, Terry. I mean, are you willing to do the work? And we can spin this another way. As far as I’ve said since 2006, the hardest thing I’ve ever done is being a Christian. I have to work so hard at that based on my extroverted personality and forethinking and quick speaking, and then even coworkers coming up against you to be a Christian. It’s like yeah, that’s all humbug stuff. Well that’s your opinion, and I’m not going to judge you certainly because that’s just wrong of me to do that.

Don: So I think the advice for that person that’s struggling is just to watch some stuff, get involved with somebody that would guide you and have a friend, like I’ve developed in this journey thing, with the coaches and stuff. I have people to reach out. I talk to those coaches, yeah. We get together and have fun times and meals together. And then that gives you a person to go see and express your concerns about that family member or the holiday coming up in Christmas.

Don: It gets pretty complicated, I know. But the main thing that I read and see in my studying is it all starts with you. You’ve got to do something to make your situation go better. And you have to be able to … This is very important, I’m really going to stress on this. You have to listen to other people.

Terry: I think listening is a really good … You make a really good point there.

Sarah: Well, I was going to jump at that’s a great point too.

Don: Yeah, somebody knows your situation, and can tell you what you need to do. Because I’ve been there folks and I’ve done it and I did not listen and that was wrong. So reach out and talk to somebody that you feel close to and ask them what they could do, because they might be able to point you in the right direction. But be open about it. Be open minded.

Sarah: Well, and one thing, I’m an extrovert too, so you got to take what I suggest with a grain of salt. But one thing that I do as an extrovert for any kind of events like this too. So Don, you’re talking about, in general, building relationships and stuff. But as far as when you go to that party, one thing that I do is I look around the room and I find someone who is sitting by themselves.

Terry: That’s an excellent idea.

Sarah: And I go and sit down next to them, and I’ll ask questions. So that goes along with the listening, is I’ll ask questions. So instead of talking. And then it goes into a back and forth. And all of a sudden a half an hour has gone by and other people have joined you. And then if you feel like you don’t really fit in the conversation again, you get up to go get a slice of pie. And then you look around the room again and you find maybe two people are sitting next to each other and not really talking, and you sit down with them.

Sarah: I mean, again, I have a lot of introverts in my family and I know it’s hard when you sit down and no one else is talking. But the main tip is you ask questions.

Terry: Right. Well and I think developing a plan, you’re going to a party, especially if you’re an introvert, develop a plan and think, okay, I’m going to go in and I’m just going to say hi to three people. Or I’m going to ask them how their day is. You’re developing a plan. You’re saying, okay, this is what I’m going to do. So you actually count. Okay, I’ve talked to one, now I’m going to talk to another one. And just kind of do it as an experiment. What happens if I do that?

Sarah: And what if you came up with questions to ask too?

Terry: Sure.

Sarah: Just say, okay, so if it’s for Thanksgiving, Then you could ask them about what their Christmas plans are, or what they are planning on getting their children for Christmas or something like that. Or what their work projects are. But come up with questions ahead of time that you have in your back pocket essentially to ask, so that you don’t have to come up with it on the spot.

Terry: Sure. And I think also doing something good in the situation, volunteering, helping out. We tend to, even introverts tend to feel more competent and more comfortable if they have a role. So call the host ahead of time and say, hey, can I do something for you? Can I go around and refill glasses? That kind of thing. And when you do that, you have more of a role in the thing and you feel a little bit more connected.

Sarah: I naturally do that too. I get up and help when I’m feeling uncomfortable. Another thing is you smile. The biggest thing, even if you don’t talk very much, if you smile at people, they just think you’re the nicest person and they come and talk to you and stuff. I just let the world know, whoever’s listening to The Journey Podcast, that’s my secret of being an extrovert is I just smile. And people mentioned it all the time. They’re like, oh, you’re so nice, I love your smile. And it’s just you can be an introvert and just smile.

Terry: And somebody might even be curious about what you’re smiling about, and come over to find out.

Sarah: I mean, don’t just walk around totally smiling. But when you can’t make eye contact, give them a big smile.

Don: Yeah. But it’s just like Sarah says. It’s very evident that happy people, everybody wants to know what you’re happy about. And we can wear that same smile in Christianity. We can hear the best preachers, wherever you want to listen to them, talk about if you’re … It’ll radiate off of you. And Jeff and I had an instance here a week ago, where a lady just walked by and just overheard us talking. And that just led her to reach out. And it’s amazing how if you’re walking that walk, and talking the talk, and people can see that you’re, whatever it is that you’re on fire about, they want to know.

Don: And I tell people on a regular basis. They go, I don’t know about this church-going thing, Don. You’re inviting us, but I really don’t know about that. I just continue to invite them a couple times and then tell them, hey, come and sit with me. I’m not asking you to go.

Don: But then I leave it alone. I mean, folks, if you’re listening, this works. Try it. They’re going to watch what I do. I’m being watched at all times. And I’m not saying that to pat myself on the back, but people are watching Don, and they’re following. And it’s showing up here as we record this today. There’s people that are going to contact me this week because of what they’ve seen happen, and the happiness that I share wherever I go. They want, I want to know what he’s doing.

Terry: Well, and I think you make a good point here because I think it’s don’t be passive, be active. And if you’re passive, you can sit there and kind of wait for people to come up to you and be lonely or you can be active and look for somebody else who might be lonely like Sarah was saying.

Sarah: Exactly, because with me being an extrovert, I will say that if there are times when I just am not feeling well and I don’t want to be talking with people, I just do the opposite of what I just suggested. So I won’t make as much eye contact, I won’t smile as much, I’ll stay back a little bit further, and then I won’t have those conversations that I usually do as an extrovert.

Don: I got to one up you, because even when I don’t feel good, I’m smiling at people. How you doing? I’m just great man. I’m on my way to meet with Jesus tonight here at church. What are y’all up to?

Sarah: Maybe you’re more of an extrovert than me.

Don: Yeah, well that goes back to the last podcast. That word pretend-aholic. Well in that case, it’s good to be a pretend-aholic that night, because then everybody thinks you’re still happy.

Sarah: Okay. So I want to change the subject slightly. So Terry, with you being a counselor, maybe you can address this more heavy topic, which is for others who are missing loved ones who have passed away or moved away, and in those situations the holidays can be devastatingly lonely.

Terry: Oh absolutely.

Sarah: How do people deal with those kinds of situations?

Terry: I think a lot of what we’ve already talked here really applies, maybe with one additional one. Be really good to yourself. Remind yourself you’re not alone. There are other people who are also going through the same kind of thing. But again, develop a plan. Get out there, try not to be passive. Let people know, find close friends and just say, hey, I’m really struggling with this holiday.

Terry: I remember the year after my dad passed away. It had only been a few months before Christmas and I absolutely didn’t feel like putting up a Christmas tree. It was like, why bother? I just remember feeling like I didn’t even want to celebrate Christmas. And I mentioned that to one of our kids. And they came over and they put up the Christmas tree for us and they decorated. And it felt so good to just feel, to have somebody kind of come around us.

Terry: So if you know somebody who has lost someone right before this holiday or even anytime this year, maybe check with them, how can I bless you? Can I come over and help you with something? Can I bring you a meal? Just realize that they’re the ones who probably are going to have the toughest time this holiday.

Don: Well, and I’ll just add to that one last little thing there. Terry, I like what you said. But I’m going to just make this phrase right up front. Please don’t stay home alone. This alone thing is really bad, folks, because I know, I have traveled that path. And home alone, I’m being silly now, is not the way to go. You need to reach out and talk to anybody you can, just even a passerby friend. Start a conversation, and just make sure that you’re going to plug in somewhere and spend some time with somebody. But please don’t do the alone thing.

Terry: No, I think you make a really good point there. Don. And really what happens too, is everybody goes through a period, a short period where you’re lonely, but chronic loneliness makes us more susceptible to things like depression, even Alzheimer’s disease. It lowers our immune system, it stresses our cardiovascular system, and it can actually affect how long we live, because loneliness is not something to just ignore.

Terry: If you’re feeling lonely right now, do something. Reach out, call somebody, call a hotline, find a friend, find a loved one, find a pastor, find a counselor, a therapist, a psychiatrist, psychologist, somebody, and just say, hey, I’m really, really lonely. Can you help?

Don: Yeah. And just another side note to that loneliness. I can speak with this, with complete confidence. Based on my health in the last 40 years of my life, the loneliness and home alone thing, I can verify doesn’t work. And by making this one statement, it severely affected my health for the rest of my life, because it led to immense drinking. And there’s a lot of people that struggle with drugs and other things. Fortunately, I never did any drugs. But I want to just make this so clear that the alone stuff is just, it’s a Josh Turner song, it’s writing the long black train, and I’m not going to ride that train and I certainly don’t want any of you to.

Sarah: Yes, that’s a good point, Don. So thank you for joining us today as we discuss the impact of loneliness and how that affects us. And our hope is that in listening to this podcast, you feel encouraged, connected, and determined to develop your strengths and to live out your purpose.

Sarah: In concluding the podcast, I do want to leave you with a few questions in order to continue this important discussion. Our hope is that by asking these questions to a trusted friend or coach, you’re able to bridge the gap of loneliness to connection, fear to confidence, and worry to peace.

Sarah: And so the questions I have for you today are what are you going to do? What are your plans for this Thanksgiving and Christmas? What are you planning ahead of time right now so that you can help with connection and avoid loneliness? And then the second question is, what can you also do right now to be prepared for building those relationships during these events?

Sarah: And until next time, live the journey that awaits you. And thank you for listening to the journey podcast. We will see you later.

Terry: Bye.

Don: Bye.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org. And check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.