Don

Physically Distant with a Strong Connection

 Jeff and Don explore what it means to deeply connect, even if you are physically apart. From being intentional about what you talk about (strengths, areas of improvement and worldview) to taking the conversation deeper to discuss the matters that are closest to your heart.



Transcription of the Podcast


Don:

But I also want to make it clear that I know there’s single dads, single moms out there, even married couples that are kind of, “Oh, the kids are all here. What are we going to do?” Well, we’ve got to adapt. We’ve got to adjust.

Jeff:

So welcome back to The Journey Podcast, where we really do care deeply about real and authentic relationships. This is Jeff and I’m sitting here today with Don.

Don:

Good morning, Jeff.

Jeff:

Good morning, Don. And we’re going to talk a little bit about connecting, about those relationships that really matter in life. And it’s a topic that is really important with all that is going on in the world, and we think it matters now as much as it ever has. So yeah, jump in and grab a cup of coffee wherever you’re at, and sit back and relax for a few minutes and we’ll chat. So a little background, and this just happened yesterday, in fact. I was at the grocery store. I probably spent 10, 15, 20 minutes at the grocery store, and I had three people just come up to me and start either talking or asking questions, and it was really cool. It was really neat because I mean how often have you gone down to a grocery store and have people come up to you and just start talking?

Don:

Well I can see why it would have been extremely rare to you because you’re always kind of about you don’t have a lot of friends. So when a lot of people started talking to you, you’re were happy.

Jeff:

I was like oh, a person.

Don:

I scare everybody, and they run away from me. A lady at the chiropractor’s office yesterday came around the corner, and she looked back at the secretary and said, “I don’t want to sit in there. I want to be further away from that guy.” And I’m like geez. I’m not that crepey looking. So yeah, I can really dig on how you’d like other people to start connecting with you because now you’ve got more friends, dude. But do you think maybe it’s because everybody’s in a little panic mode? There’s lot of stuff going on in the world right now.

Jeff:

Yeah, a lot of stuff going on.

Don:

A lot of scare, a lot of fear.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

I even felt lost this weekend. I couldn’t go to church. Everything’s different there because of this thing, so I felt lost and lonely for a few days there, trying to figure out how to reconnect with the world.

Jeff:

Well we’re back here today, right. And it’s you and I.

Don:

Yeah, chatting it up.

Jeff:

Yeah. Now you’re not going to hear these girls on the podcast, but Jen is here sort of running all the equipment here. You can even say hi Jen, from a distance. Say hi.

Jen:

Hello.

Jeff:

See she’s there. And Annie is joining us by this thing that I think is called Zoom. Oh. So she’s nodding her head up and down. Yep, I’m there. But what’s cool, Annie has a little sniffle, a cold and she’s actually in another city about a hundred miles away, but she can join us by Zoom. And we’ve had a good conversation this morning for about gosh, 20, 30 minutes. And so three of us are in the room and another one of us is a hundred miles away on the computer. But hey, got to love technology, right.

Don:

Yeah, and it works. I mean you would think a country hillbilly like me wouldn’t know about Zoom, but I’m on them a couple times a week with some home based businesses that I do. And I think this is going to be a way for people to possibly connect, especially on this church side of thing. We just got a letter in an email yesterday that we will be live streaming until further notice because of the state laws and stuff. And I know I was watching some videos last night, some farmer friends of mine that’s all the way out in Ohio, from the Illinois [inaudible 00:00:03:45]. We all know that.

Don:

So yeah, I think this is going to be another way to also … I’m going to encourage people that do listens to us on Journey to share with their friends to come and connect with us on Journey and listen to what we’ve got to offer the next three or four weeks. We hope the contents going to be good. And you’re not going to be able to get it with your normal social groups, so come hang out with us for a while. We’re pretty funny.

Jeff:

So today we’re going to talk about how to do that, how to connect and how to keep those relationships going, and actually maybe to even build some new relationships that are even deeper than relationships that you’ve had in the past. So yeah. So we’ll just kind of jump in a little bit. I think let’s go back a little bit, and I just love hearing your story, Don, and just how you’ve gone from disconnection to connection over the last year or so. And for instance, we were talking to your brother here a few weeks ago, and just really cool there, how that’s gone deeper. But it seems like every time we talk about … when we’re just talking, you are giving me another story of just how you’ve just sat down with somebody, how maybe you’ve had a family meeting and you guys have gotten closer. And then what you were saying just here a few minutes ago of just how distant it seems right now, right. I mean we’re seeing firsthand just how, because of what’s going on, there’s just a lot of distance.

Don:

Well, there is, like I said, with the emails just put out that we are no longer going to be there. I’ve only been actively back involved in church for a little over a year and a half. And prior to that I sat in my little home/shed for two and a half years drunk every day. We’ve done other podcasts. I have severe history of alcoholism. So to walk out of that, get better, connect God, and get right with the coaches from Journey, that was one of the biggest blessings to me is to connect with two fellows that want to come up alongside you. Yeah, I’m a guy, I’m going to go ahead and say it. They loved on me, dude. They cared about me, and they want to help. So for a year and a half now, everything’s been rolling pretty smooth.

Jeff:

And we’ve talked about that before too. The whole idea of more than just that conversation about your favorite football team, right. More than that conversation about, “Hey, what’s that basketball team doing?” Or what kinds of things are going on at work?

Don:

All we talked about was the Cubbies. I’m like I’m sick of all this. I lived in Illinois for years, and Gary would laugh, and he just rubbed me with it every week about the Cubbies. So we had fun, like buddies. It wasn’t just a coaching thing. We became, still to this day, friends. But when you spin off of that, like we were talking earlier, so I’m a single guy, so I ask myself when I hear the news about not being able to attend my local church anymore, been on a really good groove here for a year and a half, okay. I’m a big strong boy. I can handle things emotionally, but maybe not so much. I see a counselor. I have anger issues. I have a tendency to fall back on alcoholism. So if I wanted to let my life spin out of control right now, and I think there’s so many people out there, guys, I really do that are going, “What do we do? What do we do?” Well, and I’m not saying this that people would feel sorry for me, but how do you suppose I feel?

Don:

Went from drunk for two and a half solid years, reconnect to the world, plug into a large church that I had known in the past briefly, get actively involved, and now, based on the chaos, or whatever you want to call it, going on in America and all over the world, I’m forcefully being shut off from the things that I like to do. So what am I going to do? Whether you’re Christian or not, matters not to me, but I’m going to hone in on reading my Bible, and I’m going to work extra hard at staying connected with Jesus because I don’t have places to go now. And here’s a little catch 29. What if I were to just be discontent and full of fear again? That could lead right back to drinking again.

Don:

So I’m doing double time here for myself, but I also want to make it clear that I know there’s single dads, single moms out there, even married couples that are kind of, “Oh, the kids are all here. What are we going to do?” Well we’ve got to adapt. We’ve got to adjust. And we have here, at Journey Coaching, we’re going to try to bring you good content every week, please listen and see if you can pick up some little rabbit runs to follow along with us so that we can help encourage you in these stressful times. I mean they are stressful for the average person.

Jeff:

Yep. And the times are typically … There’s stress anyway, right. I mean it’s just we have more things to sort of cushion us. We’ve got that next basketball game, that next tournament series, we’ve got that thing that sort of can distract us. So let’s face it, we’ve just got less distractions right now, and so what can we do? And so it’s more than the podcast. So here’s the thing. What can people do? Well, we can all have those intentional growing healthy relationships. Well, how do we do that? At Journey, we’ve invested the last … It’s over five years of really developing some good core content. And it’s so simple. It’s so simple. It’s seven sessions, and it’s just a guideline. It’s just a guideline to help people to really look at themself in the mirror, and look at their strengths, look at areas for improvement, look at their worldview, and to sit down with somebody and to share your story guy to guy, girl to girl, couple to couple, but a way to really just say, “Here’s my life ,and here are a few steps that I can take to get better.”

Don:

It’s interesting you say that because you know I’m coaching a 16-year-old boy.

Jeff:

Yeah, you just jumped right into it.

Don:

Every Sunday.

Jeff:

Yeah, you jumped right into that, didn’t you?

Don:

And it’s so amazing, over the last couple of weeks, Jeff, the things we were talking about, just simple day-to-day life things, but it always kind of keeps falling back on his faith level. And I just tell him all the time, even last Sunday, I said, “I’m envious of you because you were born and raised a Christian child. My silly hillbilly brain didn’t get it completely until he was 59 years old. Look how much catching up I got to do.” And he smiles and laughs at me. And then in the other hand he goes, “Don,” he said one day, he said, “Geez, I feel bad for you. I mean I would have hated to miss out on what I’ve already seen,” and he’s only 16 years old, you all, and I’m 61. And I’m like, “I’m jealous of you, dude. You got a advantage on me.” But as we sit and talk once a week in our little journey session, it’s just interesting to see what this boy, I got to be careful how I say this if we need adding [crosstalk 00:11:57].

Don:

The average 16-year-old that I run across or bump into, and I have a nephew that’s 17, and as I sit and talk, there is such a difference of mindset between two boys, similar age, but based on their background and their faith, unfortunately they’re as opposite as water and oil. And that intrigues me so much that when it comes to faith-based boy, born and raised, other boy, no, not at all, just kind of went through the motions because parents encouraged or maybe leaned on him to do that, but he never grasped any of it.

Jeff:

And that’s you, right? You’re talking about yourself there.

Don:

No, I’m talking about another boy equivalent to the same age as the one I’m-

Jeff:

Oh, okay. I got you. Oh, okay. I see what you’re saying. I got to what you’re saying. Yeah.

Don:

Yeah, two boys, same age, but the difference is water and oil. Raised, believes in Jesus, other one pushed into it against his will.

Jeff:

Right, I got you.

Don:

And doesn’t have any of it, doesn’t have any knowledge of it.

Jeff:

Okay, right.

Don:

So another reason to hopefully connect with us here at Journey because we’re-

Jeff:

Right. And the thing about Journey is it is regardless of where somebody’s starting at. So it could be somebody, it could be that person regardless of age, that’s really far from God and really doesn’t even know if they believe in this at all. Or it could be somebody that’s been around it all their life. It doesn’t matter. Again, it’s about those connections, and it’s about getting outside oneself.

Don:

I’m going to let you talk about connections. Forgive me for saying this Jeff, but we talk a lot, and you and I have had personal conversations about the term coaching, coaching, coaching, but right now, I don’t know, this thought just came to me, isn’t our main goal here at Journey Coaching … Due to the circumstances in our economy, don’t we want to just be your friend?

Jeff:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:00:14:00].

Don:

We just want to make friends with you right now. You can just hang out with us, listen to our podcast, and just be our friends. And then later on, we all know that this too shall pass, they say, and this will settle down, but while we’re in these kind of dire conditions, why don’t we all … why don’t you all listen to our podcast, tell your friends, and let’s just make buddies here on podcasts. And when all this settles down, then we could go back to, “Hey, now we’d like to sit down and coach with you.” And you might know some people out there as listeners and go, “I think I’m pretty good, but so-and-so, Sally or Bob over there, I think they could use some journey coaching.” Good. Invite them to the podcast, let them listen to what we’re doing.

Jeff:

But what you say is interesting because that is typical where there’ll be a time where there’s some anxious, be like oh yeah, I should do this. I’ll wait until things settle down. I would suggest that how about when there is that time, when there’s that anx, jump in and do something about it. And that would be a great time right now to jump in, and here’s what you can do. Grab a friend. Grab a friend that’s a few steps ahead of you, and this can be somebody you trust, somebody you respect, and just say, “Hey, I’ve heard about this Journey Coaching thing. Let’s talk about that.” They can go to journeycoaching.org. They can see what the whole idea’s about, not only a podcast but the actual seven sessions. And then you can just order those seven sessions, and sort of grab a friend, grab a couple of books, and get started. And you can get started over coffee.

Jeff:

And if you don’t even want to get together, like we’re doing again today here, I mean we’ve got Annie sitting on this Zoom thing, and she’s communicating. And so in fact I got to read her a question because I got to tell you how cool this is that this actually works. So as we’re talking, and again, she’s not in the room, I just want to again show this idea that you don’t have to be necessarily in the room, she says, “So how are podcasts a jumping board for connecting?” Well, the big thing that the podcasts do is they will sort of provide that fertile ground of what we’re talking about. They sort of encourage this idea of healthy conversations and what that’s about. So we’re just trying to sort of create an environment that just is good fertile ground for some relationships to start.

Don:

I think it’s key, those that we were saying a minute ago, I want to make sure that people are getting that right now, it’s just if you’ve been listening to any of our podcast, please, please invite a buddy, or a friend, or a neighbor, say, “Hey, I’m listening to this, and their content’s pretty good.”

Jeff:

Yeah, listen to it also, right. Yeah.

Don:

Yeah. “Hey, do you want to listen to this?” And tell your friend, neighbor, for some of you all, I’m going to go so far as to say you’re married, and invite your wife.

Jeff:

Oh, what a concept.

Don:

Sit on the couch.

Jeff:

Oh, hold it.

Don:

Listen.

Jeff:

Hold it, I got to take a deep breath here. Wow.

Don:

Since NASCAR, it’s only going to be televised for the next two weeks. So yeah, there’s a lot of people that are going to have to sit at home with their wives and do something.

Jeff:

That’s right.

Don:

They should listen to Journey Coaching.

Jeff:

And unless you want to watch repeats of games from years past, actually yes, [crosstalk 00:17:33].

Don:

Hook up. Make a friend with your spouse.

Jeff:

What a concept, right.

Don:

I’m just being stupid.

Jeff:

Anyway. But yeah, so again, we just invite you to take that step. If you want to grow, we to help.

Don:

Amen.

Jeff:

And what a great time to start doing that. So just to wrap up, let’s keep it really simple. Go to the journeycoaching.org website. On there you can find information on the actual seven session coaching process. The cost is very low. If you’re in a situation where basically you’re just buying the booklets, and just we can answer questions, through the journey website, you can ask us questions as you’re going through it. We have a audio three session training, a little program there where you can go through and get some input on how to … And you were even a part of that little training.

Don:

Yeah, all three of them. So Terry just gave us tips and helps on how to be a good coach. What are you looking for? So you’re a little well versed at it.

Jeff:

So this is not rocket science. Again, coaching, you’re not-

Don:

If it was, I wouldn’t be here.

Jeff:

You and me both, buddy. So this is not one person is the expert and you’ve got to take some big class or something, it’s just a matter of, again, developing those intentional relationships. So listen to some podcasts, order some of the material, and just grab a friend and give it a shot. And here’s the thing, personally, for me, if I’m sort of bothered, or I’m just into myself too much and worrying how’s this going to happen, or what’s happening, or what can I do, sometimes, or oftentimes, virtually all of the time, it helps to get outside myself to connect with somebody else. It’s just true for … We’re just wired like that. We’re wired for those relationships. And so this is a good way to just do that intentionally, and to do it through a little seven session way that is really designed over five plus years, a lot of people have been through this where it does just really help you to grow, and we do want to help. So thanks for listening. Any closing thoughts that you have, Don?

Don:

Just like I said, again, probably repeating myself here, but brother said it best, I think. Just dawned on me last week, Jeff, when he said, “I just wanted to be there and listen to what he had to say. I couldn’t fix him. But I wanted to listen.” So we’re in some stretchy, sketchy times right now. And if you need somebody to just listen to you, we’re here. Reach out to us.

Jeff:

Listen. And then get beyond just being sort of stuck in the times, and really use this to look at this as a huge, huge opportunity to invest in yourself, to invest in another person, and to do something different. This material is unique, it’s simple, but to do something different and to grow.

Don:

Exactly right.

Jeff:

Very cool. Well, thanks again for listening. This is been a great conversation with Don. Don, always enjoy chatting with you.

Don:

I love the invites.

Jeff:

I always enjoy it. So at Journey, we’re interested in the conversations that matter to you in your relationships. You want to grow. We want to help, not only with podcasts, but we encourage you to get into the one-on-one coaching relationships, and a good place to start is with that seven session coaching booklet. And you can find out more about that at journeycoaching.org. Have a good day everybody. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Hope In The Midst

In the midst of chaos and confusion, it is essential to cling to hope. Today on the podcast, join Jeff, Don and Jerrad as they discuss the importance of choosing the emotions we dwell on as well as finding the good from the challenges we face.


Transcription of Podcast


Jerrad:

You know, for me, I’m recharged when I walk out of there on Sunday after service. So I think that this is going to be a huge test of faith for a lot of people, but I think people are eventually going to… We have to turn to faith right now anyway because it’s the only way we’re going to make it through this.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

Jeff:

Well, welcome back to another Journey Coaching podcast, where we care deeply about real and authentic relationships. This is Jeff. I’m your host today. I’m sitting with an old friend, Jerrad. I don’t know how old though. Not that old.

Jerrad:

Not that old.

Jeff:

But kind of.

Jerrad:

I’m getting to that age where I’m starting to feel a little bit older. I feel like I might be growing up a little bit.

Jeff:

That’s right. But we have worked together for probably about five or 10 years. Has it been 10?

Jerrad:

Eight.

Jeff:

Eight?

Jerrad:

Eight, yeah.

Jeff:

I have a business, and Jerrad works at another business that is a key vendor of ours, and has provided us great service, really good service. Yeah, we can even give them a little plug, I think. Albert Auto Service is a great mechanic. You’ll see Jerrad at one of their locations if you walk in. Can we do that? Can we give it a little plug?

Jerrad:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff:

There you go. Then Don.

Don:

Good morning, Jeff.

Jeff:

Don’s a new friend. I have known Don for coming up on a year, and that’s always great to have you in the room and be talking about things that matter, so thanks for doing that.

Don:

Fun to be here.

Jeff:

So anyway, well let’s jump in. There’s a lot going on in the world today, and we’re going to try to address those things just head on and just be honest and real. I mean, just yeah, different times. Do you want to jump into that a little, Jerrad? What are you thinking? What are you feeling, man? What’s going on here and how do we take what you’re feeling then move to something different or better? Yeah, what’s going on?

Jerrad:

It’s crazy. That’s the best word I can come up with to describe any of it. I called my dad the night before last and we were talking a little bit. He’s going to be 78 this year, and he said the same thing. “In all my years never have we seen anything like this.”

Jeff:

Yeah, yeah. Give us a little insight, because we know there’s a lot going on. We know that. We know all the things. But just again, guy-to-guy, let’s just be honest guys here sitting around the table. How are you feeling? Just sitting back there going, “Oh, just another day at the office. Everything’s rosy.” Maybe not that. How are you and your wife feeling about this?

Jerrad:

It’s been like that for quite a while. We’ve all known for six weeks, a month, whatever that this is on the way. It’s coming.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Jerrad:

To finally, within the last two days, it’s just been straight on top of you.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Jerrad:

My wife has been struggling with it, just this impending doom feeling and not even wanting to get up and go to work type thing. She makes herself do it. I think some of that has to do with the fact that none of our kids are at home right now. It’s spring break, they had stuff planned.

Jeff:

Well, tell us about that a little bit, because you’ve got three kids, right?

Jerrad:

Yup.

Jeff:

They’re not sitting all in your living room, which again, with schools closed and stuff, having kids all sitting in the living room is another dynamic, for another day, another audience, but you guys have some kiddos and they’re not sitting in your living room right now, so talk about that a little bit, how that feels.

Jerrad:

Yeah, with our oldest, we’ve kind of gotten to that point where we’ve put faith and trust in her because she has moved out of state and we don’t see her on a super regular basis. We just pray that she’s making the right decisions while she’s there. With the younger ones, like I said it’s spring break, we were expecting them to be gone for a week and then back, now they’re talking about maybe extending their visit out there a little bit longer.

Jerrad:

It’s tough because at the same time we want them home so we feel like we have some kind of control over what’s going on.

Jeff:

Yeah, exactly.

Jerrad:

But at the same time, if we’re going to be cooped up for a month together, maybe putting that off another week is not such a bad idea.

Jeff:

Right. Right, right, right.

Don:

A little peace and quiet for mom and dad, right?

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Kind of give you guys an opportunity to catch up on life and just have a little one-on-one conversations.

Jerrad:

Yeah, yeah. We’ve only got two years before we’re going to be empty nesters again, or not again, be empty nesters for the first time. Maybe this next month will be a good taste of what’s coming.

Jeff:

Right. Well when you say that, we were talking on an earlier podcast about picking our emotions. It’s so important any time, but especially now because it is that glass is sort of half empty, half full on steroids right now, right, because you can look at the glass is half empty with all the news and all the… Turn on any station, but it’s also just emails that keep coming through. It’s like, “Oh, my gosh. Okay, we get it. Yeah, we get there’s something going on here that is really different that we need to address.”

Jeff:

Yeah, it’s just one of those things where we can look at that and go, “Oh…” Or we can sort of pick that emotion and let’s use the whole idea of joy, peace and joy, but joy. Actually maybe we need to get to peace before we get to joy, right, a little bit?

Jerrad:

Yeah.

Jeff:

So some peace and joy, and to pick that emotion is just, sometimes it’s easier to do that when it’s rainbows and sunshine and chirping birds and everything. You sort of have those pictures in your mind versus some of the things that again, they’re just different.

Don:

Nobody ever promised us it was going to be easy, and neither does the Lord promise it’s going to be easy. He warns us that we’ll go through storms and whatnot, which has made me think as far as you were concerned, Jerrad, I know when I met you at your church last year, I think you’re now a leader of a church, so what kind of feedback are you getting? Kind of two-sided question, are you getting pushback from people that are upset because church, I know they know it’s been done by the state of Iowa, you guys have to. I go to a large church also. We’re done.

Don:

What kind of things are going on with you guys at your particular church? What are your parishioners and people thinking? What are the comments you’re hearing at the church?

Jerrad:

It’s tough because even, you ask my wife or any of my kids, I’m kind of the eternal optimist.

Don:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrad:

I usually have a pretty sunshiny outlook on most things, but that’s kind of really taken a beaten over the last few days. As far as from the church standpoint, I’m not an active member of the board anymore, but once an elder, always an elder.

Don:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff:

Good thing or bad thing, right?

Jerrad:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do head up the safety portion of the church as well, and I’m part of our emergency response team and stuff there. I’ve actually been pretty active in getting in touch with the church via email and stuff like that over the last week saying, “Hey, what’s our plan?”

Don:

Right.

Jerrad:

We’ve been having Wednesday night Lenten meals and stuff like that, and pretty big turnouts. As soon as we heard the whole 50 people or less in a gathering, I put another email out, “What are we planning on doing? Are we canceling this? What are we going to do for services?” Finally have heard that from here on out the meals have been suspended, and we are going to be doing live stream of our services on Sunday and stuff like that.

Jeff:

It’s a change of paradigm, right? I mean, it’s a whole mindset. The whole mindset just changes.

Jerrad:

It is. Because everybody likes that feeling of community and being together, if it is only once a week, but at the same time I’m hoping that we see some good out of it. For five or six years we’ve been talking about ways to reach people that we’re not reaching that aren’t sitting in the seats, and I’m hoping that by doing some streams and stuff like this that we might reach some people that are a little bit nervous about coming and putting their butts in one of the seats.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Amen.

Jeff:

And it’s like today, so we’re sitting here today, there are four of us in a room. I introduced Don and Jerrad. Jen is here with us too running some audio, and then Annie is actually joining us virtually by Zoom. So you know, we’re all here whether we’re… Jen’s not chatting a whole lot. She’s just smiling over here.

Don:

She’s running all the buttons.

Jeff:

Yeah, hitting all the buttons.

Don:

Keep us all mixed.

Jeff:

Annie, I hope, feels like she’s in the room even though she’s not physically in the room.

Don:

Annie’s a little under the weather today. She’s struggling. Got a bad cough. I feel sorry for her.

Jeff:

Yeah. Using those cough drops and stuff.

Don:

Poor thing.

Jeff:

But you know, so it’s cool to get together, and the sun’s out, right?

Jerrad:

Yeah, it’s beautiful outside.

Jeff:

It’s beautiful outside. So we’re here. So yeah, if we look at, and talking to Jerrad about the church, we’re here as the church and we’re talking about those things that matter, and we’re talking about our lives, and we’re talking about how does God play into that? How do we fit into God’s story, which is what Journey’s about, sharing stories and strengths and weaknesses, and worldview and that kind of thing.

Jeff:

So could this be a time when we, however we do it, we just connect more.

Don:

I want to go back to what Jerrad said just a minute ago.

Jeff:

Go ahead, yeah.

Don:

I just had a thought. Jeff knows that I have sporadic random thoughts and I guess-

Jeff:

Here comes another one here now.

Don:

If I don’t say them, I’ll forget them, but when you were talking about reaching people, I like how you said that you might not normally reach and getting some butts in some seats. I like that idea, and I’m on board with you on that, but here’s something that I noticed last summer once I became involved with my first life group, and then we broke for the summer. It was like trying to collect sheep to get them back. Give me your thoughts on now basically nationwide, we’re all leaving the church.

Jeff:

Well we’re leaving everything. It could be jobs, working virtually [crosstalk 00:11:42] yeah, we’re working virtually from home or whatever.

Don:

[crosstalk 00:11:44] because it seems like watching that happen to my life group and others talking about it, so like, “Yes, we lost three or four. They said it’s not going to work. They can’t make it back together.” So has anybody thought about the concept that I go to a large church. There’s thousands of people there. Are we going to lose any, Jerrad? I like what you said. I’m with you, that we might reach people that are going to go, “Hey, I can’t go to my church. Jeff, I don’t see you go to church a lot, would you like to come over to my house and watch what my church says online because I can’t go to church anymore.” It could be a leverage or basic tool-

Jeff:

Or watch online together, right. You watch online separately and then talk about.

Don:

Has anybody thought about the concept that some of these people might get real comfortable, because I heard it said yesterday, “Well, since I tithe online and now we’re going to go live stream,” I’m not making this up, “Why would I want to go back to church if this isn’t my church?” Are we going to lose some butts in some seats?

Jerrad:

I’m sure we will. Even when things are perfect, it’s super easy to… You know, like for us with the kids being involved in activities and stuff like that, there’s a lot of weekends when we’re not in town so we don’t make it to church all the time. One week, two weeks, the third week we’re back, but it’s like this is our rest and relaxation day. You’re gone for more than a couple of times and it’s very easy to then drift away.

Don:

I know. That’s what I’m saying. I think we’re all missing the fact that this could be devastating to churches in America.

Jerrad:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Don:

People are going to get comfortable at home on Zoom and live streams and go, “Pfft.”

Jerrad:

But there again, like I said, there’s something, once you’ve been a part of a church, and especially, it doesn’t have to be a large church because I mean, smaller churches are super tight knit anyway, but just be involved in that community feel. For me, I’m recharged when I walk out of there on Sunday after service, so I think that this is going to be a huge test of faith for a lot of people, but I think people are eventually going to… We have to turn to faith right now anyway, because it’s the only way we’re going to make it through this.

Don:

I need my people. I want to go back. Yeah, I need them, because I’m a single person. That’s really important to me. We talked about it on the podcast before you got here. I’ve only been sober for a year and a half and really got connected to church and Christ and everything. This has been a struggle for me to know I can’t go hang out with my people on the weekends. You know what I’m saying? It was kind of sketchy ground for me, but it’s by the grace of God that I got sober, and I’m still sober today. It’s the longest period in my entire life, so I can’t wait to plug back in and the shaking of the hands that we can’t do even if we were to went last weekend, we couldn’t even shake hands. That’s not working. I can almost get angry about it.

Jeff:

Right. And what-

Don:

What are you laughing at, Jen? She knows that I’m angry. That’s not a secret.

Jerrad:

Well I’m thinking the other side too you know, that God uses everything for God.

Don:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jerrad:

So even in this next 30 to 60 days, this shadowy valley that we’re going to be walking through, I think that there is going to be people that are going to be recharged into having to start to rely on their faith again.

Don:

Amen, I like that.

Jeff:

And maybe to seek out that faith and to seek out God if they’ve never really looked at that, or if they’ve walked away from it too possibly also. So it’s one of those things that yeah, we don’t like the way it feels, but again, can we sort of choose to move towards peace and joy, and how can we do that? Any ideas, guys, on how we can really move towards peace and joy?

Don:

Well, like Jerrad said, they’re going to be so afraid triggered another thought. What really brought me this time, and you’ve heard it in earlier podcasts that I’ve done, Jeff, is fear. I say fear is a liar. Fear got me in October of ’18 again for the 20th-some time when I almost died again from alcohol poisoning.

Don:

At that point in my life, I got to be honest and say I think my fear factor was the highest it’d ever been, and that’s the first thing I did. Now you say that people might start looking, I like that, because yeah. And you’ve heard me say in podcasts, I hope people don’t have to get as afraid as I did to find Jesus. So I don’t want this to sound strange or weird, but maybe this will shell shock some people into going, “You know, this has been pretty overwhelming, and I’m under a lot of pressure here” and you said about your wife’s a little angry, everybody is. Good. Maybe the churches will overflow when we open back up again. Maybe, right?

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

I think this could possibly lead to a growing relationship with Christ.

Jeff:

And what can we do in the meantime? I think that’s a question. What can we do in the meantime?

Don:

Tell people about him. tell people about him.

Jeff:

What do you think, Jerrad? Some things that come to mind?

Jerrad:

Yeah, just try to stay positive. Right now everything in the media’s all this negativity.

Jeff:

Oh, so much. It’s like a fire hose, right? A fire hose of just, you’re just kind of like, “Whoa.” So you’ve kind of got to walk away from that.

Jerrad:

But yeah, you’re not hearing the stories about the people that have had it and they’re getting over it and had zero to 5% symptoms type thing, and you’re also not hearing about other areas of the world, they’re 30 to 60 days ahead of us on this, and they’re all of a sudden starting to come back to some amount of normalcy. So there is light at the end of the tunnel at least, trying to find some of that information out there.

Jeff:

Yeah. What do you think about, going back to churches, what are some things, and again Jerrad, that churches can do. Because you’ve been involved in big church stuff. You’ve been involved in small group stuff. Any thoughts there, maybe a thing or two that could be done immediately to just connect people, to kind of get people moving towards joy and peace?

Jerrad:

I really don’t know right now. Like I said, we all have to remember that everything that happens is done for good.

Don:

Everything happens for a reason.

Jerrad:

Yeah. So relying on that, like I said, knowing that there is better to come, that we can make it through. As far as the church stuff goes, with everything being shut down for the next couple weeks, even trying to do small group stuff I think’s going to be difficult because people are going to be gun shy about trying to get together even in smaller sections.

Jeff:

Now, here’s the cool thing about this, again, trying to look for what is cool is technology, right? Because as we’re sitting here and we’re looking at Annie on the screen, I mean, could small groups get together and use an internet platform?

Jerrad:

Yeah, it’s funny, it’s coincidence, but I was just introduced to Zoom like three weeks ago.

Jeff:

So there you go.

Don:

Geez, I feel pretty smart. I got it a year ago and I’m old.

Jeff:

Now there is another thing for those folks, and I would put myself in this category that’s not the real tech-savvy kind of person. There is that thing called a phone, and there actually are even landlines that you can pick up and talk to people. I’m just saying, there are ways to be connected here.

Jeff:

But yeah, I just wonder there along that line of just reaching out to another person just to start building some positive connections there, maybe a group like you say, a group of people that could connect. How cool could that be?

Don:

I’m still waiting to hear back. I got an email this morning when I pull in your parking lot out here. The guy that leads our Tuesday night men’s bible study said, “Guys, I hate to miss out on tonight, but I have some elderly relatives that I’m going to be going and visiting,” and they’re 70 and older, and that’s what they’ve been talking about, if you’re 60 and older it could affect you more. “So I’m going to have to stay away for now just because I don’t want to infect them.”

Don:

I feel bad for him because he just loves bible study and he’s a great leader, but he is forced to limit himself if we wants to go see his elder relatives. That makes me want to just pray for him right away and say, “Oh, what a shame. I feel bad for Mark, and hope that this can pass so he can come back,” because we depend on him. He’s a phenomenal leader.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Yeah.

Jerrad:

Well and going back to what you said, Jeff, about the one-on-one, getting back in touch with people you may have not talked to in a while.

Jeff:

Right. If this is four weeks, I can’t sit and watch TV for four weeks.

Jerrad:

Yeah, I mean, there’s only so many reruns of basketball games we can watch, right? In my life, my excuses to people all the time is, “I’m so busy. My kids are so busy. They’ve got so much going on.”

Jeff:

Right.

Jerrad:

Well, guess what? They don’t have anything going on. I don’t have anything going on. So it’s a good time to pick up a book, pick the the Bible, call somebody, talk to old friends.

Jeff:

Communication, what a concept.

Jerrad:

Exactly.

Jeff:

Well, at Journey, that’s an important core part of what Journey is about, not only this podcast but this seven-session little coaching outline that we have for people to share their stories, and have sort of a guideline to walk through, because let’s face it, it’s easy to just get stuck in what’s happening now or the negative or again, going back to that last game that was on TV and talking about that. But have this guideline that really helps you move towards some really healthy conversations. How cool could that be too?

Don:

Right.

Jeff:

Well, any other words of wisdom, guys? We probably should wrap up now, and appreciate you both being here today. Any other thoughts?

Don:

I like Jerrad’s last thought, pick up your bibles.

Jeff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Don:

Call a friend or relative. I’ll say that with conviction, because you know the situation with my kids.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Not so much for the good, but we just, it’s time for them to start picking up the telephone because they’re not busy.

Jeff:

All right. Right.

Don:

Especially the Good Book.

Jeff:

Very cool stuff, guys. Well, thanks again for coming in. Don, it was fun. Jerrad, thanks for joining us for the first time here. A little bit different [crosstalk 00:22:58]. Yeah, very cool.

Don:

Good to see a new face. I was going to look at Jeff a lot.

Jeff:

At Journey we’re interested in those conversations that matter to you, and your relationships, and we’re interested in that regardless of those days when it’s sunny and those days that seem a little cloudy. If you want to grow, if you want to really take some steps to move from fear to peace and joy, we’d love to help you. You can check out picking up and ordering that seven-session Journey coaching booklet on the Journey website at journeycoaching.org.

Jeff:

Regardless though, you can just pick up the phone. For those tech folks out there, log in to Zoom or whatever platform you can to connect with people virtually, and hey, let’s move forward well. So thanks again for listening.

Announcer:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

ENCOURAGEMENT FOR THE BUSINESS OWNERS WHO WANT TO SHARE THEIR FAITH AT WORK.

Have you stopped to think about the legacy you are creating? Part of the legacy that we are leaving is how we talk about God in the environments that we are in the most. Today on the podcast, Jeff, Don, Doug and Sarah offer encouragement to business leaders who want to share their faith at work but aren’t sure where to start.


Transcription of the Podcast


Doug:

It’s not about that. And that’s the sad thing is that getting people to have this grand understanding that it’s not about what we have here today. It’s not about what we have five years from now. It’s about the legacy that you’re creating and where you are going to be when all of this is over with.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

Doug:

My name’s Doug Wagner, your guest host for this edition of the podcast, sitting with Jeff Carlson. Jeff, good afternoon.

Jeff:

Good afternoon.

Doug:

Thanks for allowing me to take this chair.

Jeff:

Thank you for just jumping into that chair.

Doug:

This is a wonderful idea. Don Evans along with us as well. One of the most fabulous voices I’ve ever heard. Don.

Don:

How you’re doing today, Doug?

Doug:

Wonderful.

Don:

Glad to be here, which I hope to learn some stuff.

Doug:

Could you say the alphabet to me?

Don:

A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

Doug:

And that’s the show, right there. That’s all it is. And Sarah Banowetz, whose studios we’re in, Banowetz Marketing and Communications. Thanks for freeing up your studios.

Sarah:

Thanks for being here.

Doug:

Well, okay, it’s something, especially this time of year when we get toward the big game, you have national championship games. March Madness is right around the corner. You have lots of athletes. You’re going out there and these athletes at the end of the game, they say, “Well, first of all, I want to thank my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ for helping me become the person that I am today.” And you get a lot of people kind of look funny at them. They used to look more funny at them until Tim Tebow came along.

Don:

Amen.

Doug:

Saw somebody who is really kind of the real deal. The question that we’re dealing with in this podcast today is, what if you took that same passion for Christ and you transferred it into a boardroom or into a business setting? Now, we were talking before about being at a conference where you had a number of people up on stage talking about what makes their company special or different, things like that. And the one thing that didn’t come up, Jeff, was…

Jeff:

The whole spiritual part, because I was really looking forward to this. This was a conference. It was about a very short compressed like hour and a half.

Doug:

Right, right.

Jeff:

It had all these-

Doug:

Panel talk.

Jeff:

Yeah, panel talk. All of these successful business people and I’m like, “Oh, this’ll be great.” We get to the end and there’s like zero mention of anyone’s faith or their spiritual walk or anything like that. And I’m like, “Well, somebody’s got to have something there.”

Doug:

Do you think it’s absent from what their life is or do you think it’s just something they may be scared of saying?

Jeff:

My sense is, it is something that people are just scared of. We don’t all have the spiritual gift of evangelism, like Sarah, so. But even beyond that, I think sometimes, there’s just so much noise out there on social media and people get attacked. And so, I think some of us, we just maybe get scared.

Doug:

Right.

Don:

Could be some men kind of feel inferior over it and just don’t want to… It’s been rough for me being a roughneck to lean into that based on all the people that I grew up with and around. They’re like, “What do you mean, Don’s going all this Jesus thing now.” And I get that a lot and I’m like, “Yeah, well, it’s pretty cool. You ought to try it.”

Sarah:

Wait, what do you mean by inferior though?

Doug:

Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask you. Explain what you mean.

Don:

Confidence.

Doug:

They feel that you’re inferior?

Don:

No. I think we do. I think we are afraid. When I first started being very public about my Christianity, even as forward as I am, I struggled with it, Doug. I mean, I just like, yeah, I don’t want to tell everybody. I mean, it’s just going to shock the whole world. But once you do it for a little bit, it’s like anything. It’d be like we talked about this morning. Now, it’s just become a habit. So now, I’m codependent on Jesus. I think that’s pretty cool.

Doug:

That’s not a bad spot to be.

Don:

Yeah, I think we’re good with that, right?

Doug:

Exactly. Sarah, what are the two things that we’re taught not to talk about in polite company?

Sarah:

Politics and religion.

Doug:

Okay. You think that might be part of it and it’s just being, that’s polite company at that point? Or is there, I mean, is there a place in the corporate environment for maybe evangelism or sharing one’s belief in Christ?

Sarah:

I think people might, business owners might be concerned that they will get sued too, in our day and age. I don’t think anyone really knows what the rules are. There is that talk about the separation of church and government, and we use that in schools. And how does that translate into the working world? I mean…

Doug:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Doug:

Legally, I mean, that’s a completely different proposition. It’s that whole concept of the first amendment as freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. I think so many people have interpreted it as it’s freedom from religion. So, they think everywhere they go, they could be free from somebody pushing it on them. But in a corporate environment, have you been around people who have said, “Hey, let’s take the opportunity to have a moment in prayer?” Or even something as benign as, “A moment of reflection so we can open up our minds and our hearts to what we’re doing today.” Have you ever been in a situation like that, Sarah?

Sarah:

I have done that at Banowetz Marketing.

Doug:

Okay.

Sarah:

I also know that… I’m part of EntreLeadership, which is Dave Ramsey’s business leadership program. And I know that at-

Doug:

Never heard of him.

Sarah:

I know that-

Jeff:

He’s on your station, man.

Sarah:

I know that Dave Ramsey does that with his company.

Doug:

Oh, that guy, he’s going places.

Jeff:

Yeah, right.

Sarah:

But otherwise, I don’t really have experience with that.

Doug:

For you, Jeff, what about you? You can maybe… And I know where you stand personally, but have you been in environments where it’s available, it’s an opening?

Jeff:

Other than my own business that I’ve… This’ll be our 28th year. We’ve certainly incorporated, very intentionally, being open to God’s leading with the people that work there, and even some outreach things. In fact, a few years ago, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Andy Stanley, but he’s got some very good teaching. And we actually invited people in to listen to some of his little teaching segments, so. But no, other than the company I own and run, no, I haven’t.

Sarah:

Well, have you? I mean…

Doug:

Yes.

Sarah:

Okay.

Doug:

Oh, yes, definitely. There’s a couple of different areas, in fact. As a leader of a nonprofit housing agency, I was… One of the things we did is, we had that act of prayer. But in addition to that, go into places where people had moved out or people were going to move in, pray for the people who left, pray for the people who came in, and this was something that was very reflective. Don, wanted to come back to you real quick because this is something where I worked with what you called yourself. I worked with roughnecks when I worked at an affordable housing agency. It took a while of seeing that, but what your experience was in corporate farming, was that a place where it was welcome at all or-

Don:

No.

Doug:

It was not something-

Don:

When I was in corporate America, in the agriculture business, all through the ’80s, ’90s and even the 2. The last go around with that was in 2012. There was nothing involved with any prayer of any kind there, just excessive amounts of drinking after work. It was horrible. If you even mentioned the word Jesus around there, you got the deer in the headlights look.

Doug:

Exactly. Well, the only way somebody would is that, “Oh, Jesus, I’ve got a headache.” And that’s when they came, from the hangover the next day. So, how do we do something about them? Is it something that we should be doing something about, is finding a way to bring spirituality into the boardroom, into the business environment? Or is it just a matter, Jeff, of saying, “I’m going to be an example for what Jesus can do in my life and by living that example, people can see it.”

Jeff:

Oh, yeah, that’s a great question. So, one of the things that I have drawn a line on is, we do not want to use Jesus to sell cars. I’m in the car business. Because I think too oftentimes then, in these kind of settings, we sort of put our faith out there and we wear it on our sleeve. And it’s like, “Well, gee, I am a good person. I’m a Christian. See? I’ve got my Jesus fish on the wall. Buy from me.” And I think that is, you really got to be careful there. For me, I’ve just drawn a line in the sand and I… In fact, people come in some time and they’ll say, “Well, Jeff, we’ve heard you run a Christian business.” And I go, “Oh, hang on here a second. If you hear that, still do your due diligence. Still walk in with eyes wide open because we don’t sell the perfect car. There isn’t that perfect car out there. You still need to do your due diligence, get it checked out,” so on and so forth.

Jeff:

So, I do think we have to be careful when and how, but I think we need to be open to those promptings. And for me, it’s after that sale’s been done or with employees and staff, to sort of sense, “Okay, what might be an opening here? And what opening might I actually walk through and be bold and clear?”

Sarah:

And I think one of the concerns that I have as I’m sitting here thinking about this is, we write the paychecks. So, how can we say, “Oh, you guys, it’s not mandatory, but we’re going to do a Bible study every Tuesday at lunchtime” or whatever. But then, I mean, you do realize that the employees are sitting there thinking, “Oh, well, that person writes my check.”

Doug:

They sign the paycheck.

Sarah:

Yeah. And so, I don’t want to manipulate or force anyone to do something that they’re not comfortable with it.

Doug:

Yeah. I think that’s some of actually, the court cases that have been in the past and they’ve had decisions one way and then they’ve had decisions another. What about, Sarah, just the whole concept of saying, “You know what? We are a Christian-based business.” Like Jeff said, “We don’t sell the biblically perfect car, but we’re going to do like every other failing Christian, which we all are. We’re going to do the best that we can to live within the rules set by the tenets of Christianity.” And regardless of the Bible study, is that fair game for employers? Is that fair game for small businesses?

Sarah:

What would that look in practical, in practice?

Doug:

In practicality?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Doug:

Okay. Walk into the office. Do you have a cross up? Do you have a religious or faith-based poster? Is it something where you do have a Bible on your desk and a Bible study that you do, whether it’s with other people in the office somewhere? Just, you do it, you example it, but you don’t make a big to-do about it.

Sarah:

Exactly. And that is what that is. I agree with that. I mean, we hit two years for Banowetz Marketing last week and we went out for-

Doug:

Congratulations.

Sarah:

Thank you, I appreciate that. We went out for brunch together. And I did, it was, I mean, the first two years of a business is incredibly difficult and I did feel compelled that we should pray over our meal. And so, I asked one of my employees to do that and she did. But even that felt like walking the line because you’re in a public place and everyone’s bowing their head and stuff and I don’t know what the beliefs are of all of my team members, nor do I ask them. But that felt like walking the line. But yeah, I mean, I have a Bible in my office and…

Doug:

And Don, I mean, when we’re taking a look at something like this, when you look at the ability for it, people are individuals. You’re also a truck driver. You have a completely different atmosphere in which to do that as well. Because there are some long-haul truck drivers I know. They’re the most competent, faithful Christians I’ve ever met because they have a lot of study time on the road that they take advantage of. And how do you, I mean, how can you on the road, how can you be an example for other people? Maybe not in a corporate atmosphere, but say for example, if you’ve got a group of people that run roughly the same route, and you see them over and over again, can you figure out a way to work Jesus into the conversation, where you’re not beating them about the head and neck with the Bible?

Don:

Oh, yeah. It was pretty simple. I’d done it for years, even before I would be what I would consider myself now, a follower of Jesus Christ. And I mean, I’ve said it in podcasts before, Doug, I’m on the Jesus train. I hear people, farmers back in the day, before I’ve gotten this devoted to Christianity, and as recently as now in the last week when his name is used in vain, and we’re not going to say it, but we all know what it is, the listeners do too, is just say, “No, he didn’t. He walked on water.” And they’re just like, “What?” I’m like, “No, think about what you just said. You used his name in vain, but the man walked on water and he died on a cross for us. So, could we just kind of skip over that from now on?” And luckily enough, based on my body size and my voice, I have not got any pushback on that other than-

Doug:

No.

Don:

They just turn and walk by me and go, “Okay, whatever, boss.”

Doug:

It’s definitely understandable. Definitely understandable. One of the things that you brought up, I think, that really sort of is, I guess, the concept, when you’re taking a look at people, the way that popular culture has denigrated, not just Christianity, but most other faiths too, in they’ve just completely diluted it down to something where people, if you say, “Well, Jesus Christ had walked on water,” “Well, that’s just because he didn’t know how to swim.” They tried to make him imperfect. With the point comes down it’s like, we’re imperfect beings as followers of Christ, and you admitted that. I admit that. But there’s an expectation, I think, of people who are Christians, who do believe that they live by the red letters. They’ve got to follow those red letters right down to the T and if you don’t, then you’re a hypocrite. What’s the difference between a hypocrite and a sinner? I mean, in reality, what is the difference between a hypocrite and a sinner?

Sarah:

Nothing, except for the fact that the hypocrite says that they’re not a sinner.

Doug:

There you go.

Don:

Yeah. Because we’re all sinners. I mean, the whole world gets the fact that we’re a sinner. Our pastor at church, our interim pastor, everybody noticed it right away. He opens every sermon in prayer, Doug. And right in the very beginning of the prayer he said, “Lord, forgive me because I know that I too am a sinner and I just hope that you open up the hearts of everybody.” He admits it every single week, four times a weekend, that “I am a sinner.” And we all are. And going back to what you said about Tim Tebow, and take the Kurt Warners of the world-

Doug:

Oh, yeah.

Don:

From Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I’ve watched Kurt, I’ve seen him in person. I shook his hand. So, what I would say and what I’ve been trying to do since October of last year, late teen, is be bold about it, and not be afraid of it. Because what do I got to lose? If there is no heaven and I’m walking around telling people about Jesus, then it doesn’t work out. At least I’ve had a lot of hope. And like Jeff says, about using Andy Stanley. I mean, I hope everybody in the world hears this. If a guy can predict his own death and resurrection in three days and pull it off, how are you going to deny that he’s not Jesus Christ, our Lord?

Doug:

Exactly.

Don:

It just blows my mind.

Doug:

Yeah. Well, let’s bring it back to the beginning here real quick. Talking with Don Evans, with Sarah Banowetz and Jeff Carlson, the original posit that we had out there was this concept that, why are businesses, why are business leaders maybe hesitant or reticent to address their spiritual relationship when they’re talking about the things that help them in their business, formulate what they do on a daily base, when you’re talking a best of kind of panel? I’m going to throw this out there and see what you think about it.

Doug:

Every business leader is expected to be perfect within their business. You look at Boeing, the big mistakes that were made here over the past year with regard to the 737 Max and some other things. They’re expected to be absolutely bulletproof. Maybe the idea that by stating your Christian principles that you are not standing on your own, but you’re standing on the shoulders of a risen savior, that makes you a little bit weaker, like you were talking about. What do you think about that idea from the outside looking in? Could that be a possibility, of why individuals are not interested because they’re not taking responsibility for their own actions? They’re leading at the foot of the cross.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Don:

Well, let’s go a step further, Doug. Let’s be honest. Totally honest. I just had a meeting with a quote-unquote leader, not a church leader, but a leader in a church atmosphere.

Doug:

Right.

Don:

We had this conversation and his comment to me was, “I don’t know that I’m based in the question you’re asking me, Don. I know I’m not really sure that I’m probably leading quite as well as I should be.” And I said, “I know.” Since I’ve been a young boy, I had been taught by old farmers. Some lead, some follow, and some just get the heck out of the way. And I just feel that leaders in corporate America don’t properly know how to lead. And they’re too afraid to step up and say, “No, this is what we’re going to do. This is the way it’s going to be. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We’re going to lead this way. This is how I want my company to run.”

Don:

You’re doing it with your people, praying over lunch. And there’s a few athletes out there, they’re doing it. And I don’t know why everybody’s afraid to just say it. It’s just like it’s killing people to say, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior, and without him, we’re all dust.” You can’t work your show and do what you do without Christ. I know you can’t. I don’t even know if you’re a believer. I just met you today.

Doug:

But here’s the thing. Some people, they don’t believe it. Or if they believe it, they just, it’s kind of in the periphery of what they do. It’s not the core of what they do. And I think that’s a big part of it.

Jeff:

Amen.

Don:

They like to pick and choose what they want to follow.

Doug:

You’re right. And we can’t stop them from doing that. That’s, I mean… So then, the question is, again, when you have individuals like that, is there something that we can do as individuals to help raise them up? Is there something we can do as individuals around them in order to empower them? Or is this just, you give them a direction, you pray, and then let Christ do what Christ does? Jeff?

Jeff:

Well, and I think a couple of things there, Doug. One is, to your point, as a first step to realize, none of us are perfect. So, if I’m a business leader and I’m out there giving a presentation on what has made me quote-unquote successful, I need to realize if I stand up and talk about my faith, I’m not perfect. There’s no perfect business person out there. So, I think just realizing that is helpful. And then the other thing is, just what Don talked about, the fear thing too, right? I mean, there’s just that fear of, okay, if I mention something spiritual, if I sort of blur the line of this separation, as much as that’s been mis-queued and mis-skewed, mis-talked about, separation of church and state.

Jeff:

But as long as I’m willing to step into that and blur that a little bit and say, “Well, this is a part of who I am, emotional, physical, and spiritual,” it’s all important. And if I’m willing to just step out there and in some appropriate way communicate that, I need to, “Okay, deep breath.” Yeah, might be a little scary. It might be. I don’t have the gift of evangelism, I just don’t do it naturally, but ought I not think about, “Yeah, I can do that. I can do that.” First couple of times, it might be a little scary.

Sarah:

Well, I think the piece that’s missing from this conversation is the why. Why would… Our business leaders doing it, why or why not? But the big why, which is, why would it even be needed that a business owner would need to say anything at all? And I had just gotten back from… Jeff made me… He is my father. So, although I’m in my late 30s, he still makes me do things.

Jeff:

It ain’t easy, though.

Jeff:

Here’s how I make Sarah do something. I say, “Sarah, don’t go do that.” “No, I’m going to help you.”

Sarah:

So, he sent me off to a leaders…

Don:

I have witnessed this happen.

Sarah:

Yeah, Don knows our relationship, Jeff and I, our relationship very well. So, Jeff sent me off to Chicago in December, this last month. And it was about city catalyst movements. Essentially, business leadership, and mixing business leadership and Christianity and impacting society as a result. And one of the speakers said that, and I did not know this, but when we’re talking about actual fishing, 90% of the world’s fish that we consume and use for products and stuff are caught in 10% of the world’s bodies of water.

Sarah:

So, let’s just say that again. 90% of the world’s fish that we use are caught in 10% of the world’s bodies of water. And so, what good fishermen know is that they go where the fish are at. So, they don’t fish where there’s not fish. And so, they were essentially saying that in today’s day and age, the fish, and this was two pastors. The speech was two pastors that I was just there at and they said that that’s where the… What would I say?

Doug:

Go to where the fertile soil is.

Sarah:

Yeah, go where the fertile soil is. And they were just calling to action pastors and saying, “You really do need to pay attention to the businesses in your church body, because you get to talk with your congregation on Sunday morning. But the business leaders are leaving your congregation on Sunday morning. And they are the ones that are interacting with the community where the fish are at, where the fertile soil is, the rest of the week. And so, you really need to take those business leaders seriously.” As a result, the global leadership summit started years ago. How many years ago, Dad?

Jeff:

Oh, my golly, yeah, decades.

Sarah:

It started as a training to train up pastors, and what it has morphed into is training for business leaders and their teams. And so, this is a nice plug for the upcoming global leadership summit in August, where business leaders can bring their teams and hear Craig Groeschel, Lysa TerKeurst, just some big names in the secular world, and in the Christian world, to teach their leadership teams and just their staff on solid leadership principles.

Doug:

Making faith a seven-day-a-week object and enterprise.

Sarah:

Yes. Yes.

Doug:

I mean, really, that’s… I mean, I guess that’s really the big thing is pulling this from the middle of this conversation is taking faith out of just a one-day-a-week on Sunday or the two-day-a-week Sunday and Wednesday, and making it seven days a week, so that not only are you exampling but you’re also creating an environment in which it can grow.

Sarah:

And Doug, I’m going to throw a question back at you then.

Doug:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Why is that important? Why is it important that we have human beings living out a Christian faith seven days a week?

Doug:

Because you have examples everywhere you go.

Sarah:

But what does that do for humans?

Doug:

What does it do for you? It gives them the ability… Well, it does a number that I could sit here. That’s a 30-minute program [crosstalk 00:23:21] itself.

Jeff:

That’s another podcast.

Doug:

Yeah. That’s a whole nother [crosstalk 00:00:23:23].

Doug:

No, but what that does is, it gives them the opportunity to not only learn but also become mentors, so that they can spread this and other people can learn. And you also can draw one another together in community because we are meant to be a people of community in Christ. That’s the whole point of it is that you can worship on your own. You ask any… John McCain, great example, that the folks who were in those cages in Vietnam, they worshiped on their own, figured out a way to worship in community by tapping out in Morse code Sunday services. And then pretty soon, it became more than Sunday services.

Doug:

We need that kind of community. We need to be able to do that, as brother and sisterhood in Christ, because that brings us closer to our creator, closer to our maker. That brings us closer to the ideals that we want to example, not only for the people that we work with, but also for the people that we live with, walk down the street with, the people that I honked the horn at because they were stopped on a green arrow and they were driving through a red light.

Jeff:

Those people.

Doug:

I am so sorry about that. I do feel bad, but it’s like I was like, “Man, I’m really going to do this right now, and I just did that.” So, yeah, I-

Don:

You never prayed they’d go to heaven, but real soon?

Doug:

So, for me, that’s it. I don’t know if that was a right or wrong answer.

Sarah:

Well, no. And Don, the community that Doug was talking about, what has that meant to you?

Don:

The community?

Sarah:

The community.

Don:

The people around me?

Sarah:

Yeah, the community and people around you and living for Christ seven days a week.

Don:

Just the raining of blessings. That’s why I’m so on fire to share the word of Christ with everybody, because not just 14 or 15 months ago, you could have considered me a homeless person, and I was in solitude. Our current message up right now is loneliness that you and Terry and I did. I just listened to it for the first night since it’s been aired, but… And here’s something that I want to throw out, not to get any sympathy, and only Jeff and Sarah know this, Doug. I physically… Andy Stanley, we use him a lot and we’re going to, I think, in Journey. The coaches that coached me, Doug, go into the Mount Pleasant prison. I’ve got certified, I can go in there with them now. And we watch Andy Stanley messages. He talks about all the time that people that are young, getting out of college, “Oh, I’ve got to hurry up, I got to get married. I got to do this because time is not in my favor.”

Don:

And he said, “You’re wrong. Time is in your favor.” I’m circling back. So, bear with me. Okay, in my case, to be very candidly and not wanting sympathy from nobody, time is not in Don’s favor because of the way I’ve abused my health. It’s very, very poor. So, I share at meetings, recovery meetings, “Please, I beg of you, don’t wait so long to quit and break your addictions.” Because then I have to go contrary to what Andy Stanley says, and tell everybody that you don’t want to be me, that time is no longer in my favor. So, what time I have left, I want to utilize that to the best of my ability, and let anyone I can touch know that I’ve had blessings. I’ve reunited with my kids two weeks ago, 13-year gap. There’s just been all kinds of stuff to answer, why I want to tell everybody. Do I to need to say anymore? There’s so many things you can receive.

Sarah:

There is. Well, and if anyone-

Don:

And we get taught in church all the time, the more you sow, the more you reap. I’m a farmer. If we planted right, we got more bushels. The more people I touch with Jesus Christ, I just keep getting more blessings. So, let’s, it’s-

Sarah:

And there are lots of episodes of the Journey podcasts where… Go on the website, search for Don, and listen to several of the podcasts that he’s talked about. He dives into that deeper.

Doug:

Now, mind you, and we’re going to wrap there. We’re not going to Wrap on a negative note, but we do have to say is that in all realism, is that, Don, it is a blessing what’s happened with you. But even if none of that happened and you still are a follower of Jesus, those blessings, the ultimate blessings are in the hereafter.

Don:

Amen.

Doug:

Where you know that you are going to be in the presence of and the glory of Jesus, right? And that’s the big one, is there are a lot of people who say, “Well, what about those Christians that don’t get those blessings? What about if I’m a business leader and I throw my whole lot in with Jesus Christ and my business goes belly up and I’m homeless and I lose my wife, my kids, and my cars, and their education, their whole future?” It’s not about that. And that’s the sad thing is that getting people to have this grand understanding that it’s not about what we have here today. It’s not about what we have five years from now. It’s about the legacy that you’re creating and where you are going to be when all of this is over with.

Don:

Well, we were never promised there weren’t going to be storms in our lives, and we’re supposed to learn from the storms and the trials that we go through.

Doug:

Absolutely.

Don:

And so, there’s a lot of ways to look at that.

Doug:

So, Jeff, what’s the best way as business leaders, when you go back to a place like that and you have these business leaders sitting in front of you, what would you like to hear when they ask, best practices, within your life, within your companies?

Jeff:

Nothing pushed, nothing forced. Just open, honest, “Hey, here’s the spiritual part of my life.” Just incorporate it in. It doesn’t have to be a hundred percent of your talk, but at least have something there, if it’s there, and just share that clearly and boldly.

Doug:

All right. If you’re listening, you’re getting a good coaching right here, because this is the kind of stuff that you’re probably looking for. Take this to heart. These are words that are just off the cuff. None of this stuff has been rehearsed. My name’s Doug Wagner. I’ve been sitting here with Sarah Banowetz, Jeff Carlson, and Don Evans. And thank you for inviting me on this edition of the journey. I really appreciate it.

Jeff:

Well, thank you so much.

Don:

Thank you, Doug. I appreciate you being here.

Sarah:

Thanks for being on.

Sarah:

You’ve listened to another episode of the Journey podcast. We’re glad that you are with us. Feel free to like and subscribe on your favorite channels. And we will talk to you later. Thank you.

Announcer:

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org. And check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Speaker 2:

Your life, your journey starts now.

Sarah’s Story of God’s Grace

From a monumental panic attack to knowing that God’s grace is sufficient, Sarah’s story is inspiring and encouraging. Join Jeff and Don as they interview Sarah on her story of God’s grace in her life.


Transcription of the Podcast


Don: In a very short sentence, sum up what you believe grace is.

Sarah: That’s a really good question. Because I keep saying, when I keep saying the definition, which is God’s unmerited favor for sinful mankind. But if I was going to make it personal, it’s God’s unearned love for me.

Sarah: (singing)

Jeff: Welcome to the Journey Podcast. This is Jeff Carlson. And today we’re going to talk about the grace of God. We’re going to talk about it with Sarah, and Sarah’s here. Hello Sarah.

Sarah: Hello.

Jeff: And Don is here also. And Don will be asking Sarah a few questions. In an earlier podcast we talked to Don about this topic, and it was a great podcast. And Sarah just thought, “Hey,” she’d want to jump into this topic too. So, anyway, let’s just jump right in. And Don, do you want to just say a few words.

Don: Yeah. I want to say thanks, Jeff, first of all for introducing us. And I know that you’re getting better at that on a day-to-day basis.

Jeff: Hey, I’m trying man.

Don: We’re proud of you, your daughter’s sitting here looking at you-

Sarah: We’re getting a little better at this podcasting thing as we do it, right?

Don: Well yeah, we’re all just going to chill man, take a chill pill and get it on. Yeah, so I will jump right into this Sarah, because now it’s payback time.

Sarah: Thanks, Don.

Don: Yeah, you’re welcome. The last time we were talking, we finished up, you had asked me about kind of to summarize what I felt was the grace of God in my life because of my past. And for folks listening to the podcast, this will bait them to listen to another one if they’ll listen to that one first. So please keep listening.

Sarah: Yeah. Please listen to Don’s podcast first.

Don: Come on, listen to them all, not just mine, all of them. There’s so much here. And we’ll try to keep them in line. And that’s what we’re doing. So, with that being said, I gave you my spin on what grace means to me. And you’re not even about half my age, so can I hear what your definition of grace is?

Sarah: Well, yeah. So, I actually thought that grace was just a nice girl’s name. And I have an interesting story about God’s Grace. But before I get into that, I do just want to mention that, I do just want to mention that, if you listen to Don’s podcast you know that he struggled with alcoholism and he’s had a fairly rough life. That’s…

Don: That’s an understatement, it’s true, very true.

Sarah: … that’s of… yeah. And I’ve had a different story than Don’s story. So, I was actually raised by Jeff and Terry Carlson who are the creators of Journey. And I feel like Journey was really much… it came out of the way that I was raised. So, my mom, she was a nurse when I was young. And she went on to become a licensed counselor, and works as a Christian counselor. And Journey was written by her along with Pastor Mike. If you’re just listening you probably have a hard time understanding what I mean when I say that I was raised that way. But when you go through Journey I think that you’d look back at what I’m saying right now and be like, “Oh, that makes sense.” So the questions that are asked, the nurturing that is in Journey Coaching, that’s how I was raised. So meaning, when I had problems with my friends, and it was 9:30 p.m. on a school night, and I had a hard time falling asleep, my mom was there asking me these questions. Their similar questions in what Journey Coaching is all about. And so-

Don: So let me interrupt you there. You mean, so that the questions in Journey Coaching, then you feel are a lot like questions that you had the blessing and the grace to ask your parents?

Sarah: No, that they asked me, that my mom asked me.

Don: Okay, I got you.

Sarah: So, she took parenting and she wrote it down. I really kind of feel like Journey Coaching is kind of like parenting or nurturing for adults. I mean, kids could do it to. But it’s doing really good parenting and writing it down, and then helping us parent each other almost to an extent. Which is weird, and I’ve never really said it that way, but that’s when I went through the coaching. So, when you go through the coaching, and the questions that are asked, those were the things that my mom asked me. So, those were the things that she walked me through when I was growing up. Like, “What are your strengths, Sarah?” And helping lead me to finding my strengths, and dealing with weaknesses in a healthy way. And so that’s how I was raised. So I accepted Christ when I was eight years old. And then I was raised in a very healthy environment. I feel like, I mean, every family deals with their issues. Especially my dad and I, we have our-

Jeff: Oh, do we have any issues, Sarah? Come on. I think we’re enough alike where maybe there’s a few things. The sparks fly.

Sarah: I mean even this-

Don: You know, that father/daughter thing could probably get in the way every once in a while.

Sarah: Don even admonished us earlier today. He was like-

Don: I don’t even know what that word means folks.

Sarah: … oh good critique.

Don: I reprimanded them.

Sarah: Yeah. Just, enjoy your relationship and stuff, and don’t take it for granted. And Don told us that earlier. So, I was raised in a really healthy environment I feel like. And-

Jeff: Well, and can I just jump with just a thought with the environment and things?

Sarah: What’s that?

Jeff: So, you mentioned your mom’s grace, which I definitely agree with. And then there’s another thing that we talk about sometimes is truth. And the truth is, “Sarah, it’s 8:00 in the morning, the bus is coming, you really need to get on the bus today.” Now, there’s not a whole lot of grace there, it’s like, “Sarah, you need to get up and get on the bus,” right?

Sarah: Yeah. So what he’s saying is, that the grace came from my mom and that you know.

Jeff: Well, yeah, but yeah, it did-

Sarah: There was a lot of hard… I mean, I was held to a very high standard, especially since I was the oldest. And my parents owned a company, and I worked there. And my dad held me to a high standard. Which is funny now, when he tells me when I’m holding my own children to a high standard, and he’s like, “Can’t you just give them a little grace?” And I’m like-

Jeff: Drill sergeant Sarah.

Don: Isn’t it funny how we as parents kind of change our tune a little bit.

Sarah: Well, thinking because grandparents, grandparents not as hard as parents. I’m like, “Do you remember a similar situation?” I would not have gotten away with that. So, yeah.

Don: Yeah. But I think it’s really something that’s been hitting me lately, is this balance between grace and truth, and trying to get that… not that it’s going to be perfect, but get it well, so to balance those out, you know?

Sarah: I think they’re not opposite ends of the spectrum either. Because grace can be truthful too. But there’s… I don’t think God is an enabling God. He’s not going to enable you. So, let’s lead into this story. So, this is a story that I kept quiet. And you know what, Don? I’m going to let you decide if this is even… you guys are going to decide if this even something that we want to actually air.

Don: Okay.

Sarah: So, this is a story that I kept quiet for years. I did not tell people. Because I rightfully so would think that they thought I was crazy. So, this is my story with grace. I have always wanted to have children. I got married young, and we were married for three years when our oldest son was born. And I had my very first panic attack during my scheduled C-section with my oldest son. And I did not know what the panic attack was, I just felt like I was dying. And they even hooked me up to the heart monitor. So I really did think that there was a physical problem. And I had prayed and asked God to just let me live so that I could take care of my husband and my son.

Don: Amen.

Sarah: I was 21-years-old. And about seven months went by, and I really was convinced that I had almost died during my C-section. And about seven months went by, and I was actually at the movie theater watching a movie about firefighters. And it hit me again. And I had my second panic attack. And I went out to the lobby and that’s when I knew that, “Wait, this is a panic attack, because obviously I’m not in surgery at this moment,” and everything else was fine. And that was the start of a different kind of story about anxiety and panic attacks, and a long line of dealing with that. But what else was a catalyst at that moment was the fact that a month prior, I had actually found out I was pregnant a second time.

Sarah: So, having that second panic attack was actually a blessing, because I realized, “Wait a second, maybe I will survive a second child.” But a month prior to that second panic attack, I actually found out I was pregnant. I had a neighbor over at my house that night, and she had asked me, she said, “Sarah, when are you going to have another child?” And I looked at her and I said, I go, “Never.” And she’s like, “What?” Like, the look on her face was shocking, because you don’t usually have a 21-year-old with a baby say never. And I said, “Well maybe in five years I’ll adopt.” Because I was convinced that it was a death sentence if I got pregnant again. And she walked out. And it was about 9:00 p.m. that night. She walked out, I looked at my calendar, and I realized, I should probably check something. So I went into Hy-Vee and I got a test, and I came home and it turned positive instantly.

Don: Praise God.

Sarah: Well, that’s what-

Don: Not how you looked at it, was it?

Sarah: That is now how I looked at it. So I walked out of the bathroom, and my husband was just so excited, and he hugged me. And I said, “Don’t touch me, that’s how got into this problem in the first place.”

Don: There you go.

Sarah: And he knew well enough to just be like, “Okay,” he didn’t really say anything. And it was bedtime anyway. So he just want and laid down. And years later I found out he was actually awake this whole time. So this whole time that I thought my husband just went to sleep, he was awake and he was waiting for me. Because my personality is, when something’s bothering me I cannot fall asleep. I ruminate on it, and ruminate on it, and ruminate on it, and he knew that. And so he just left me alone. I wanted to call my aunt who I knew could possibly understand, but it was late and I didn’t want to bother her. So I called my parents, because I can always call my parents at any time. So I called my parents and my mom answered the phone. And I said, “Mom,” I was crying, and I said, “Mom, God has given me something that I cannot handle.” And she told me later that she thought that Matt or my son had died in a car accident.

Sarah: And she goes, “What is it, Sarah?” And I go, “I’m pregnant.” And she started laughing, because obviously that was a good thing instead of my spouse or my child dying in a car accident. And then I was like, “No, this is not…” like, I just couldn’t. And was like… then she’s compassionate, and she’s like, “Okay,” and she’s like, “Well, it’ll be okay.” And then my dad and my brother got on the phone. He was still a child and living at home, a teenager and living at home. And they got on the phone and they congratulated me, but that wasn’t helpful.

Jeff: You know, it was the… anything we can do to not help, just let us know.

Sarah: And so, granted it’s probably 10:00 at night on whatever day.

Don: So, can I interrupt you?

Sarah: Yeah.

Don: So, would it, from where I sit, double your age, would it be fair for me to say at that point in your life, one could say you didn’t have a whole lot of faith. When you said God gave you-

Sarah: I was, I-

Don: … something you couldn’t handle, I’m not sure that… and I’m not picking on you.

Sarah: No, don’t pick on me.

Don: I’m keeping you real [crosstalk 00:11:56]. So it’s very clear that you weren’t trusting God when you make a statement like that. And the reason I caught that, is because I’ve said it all my life, and I’ve always been told by what you call, really devout Christians, “Don Evans, God will never give you more than you can handle.” And my grandma told me something when I was a little boy, I was about six or seven years old. And I do, before I make this comment, I have big shoulders, I’m a big guy. And my grandma, I’ll never forget this quote, she goes, “Donnie, you got the biggest shoulders of any of the grandkids in the family,” and they had 12 kids, so there’s a lot of rugrats running around. And she said, “God’s got a plan for you,” at seven years old. But I didn’t know God. And at that point in your life, you weren’t trusting God.

Sarah: Well, and it’s amazing that you say that. Because here we’re doing a little Journey Coaching right here on this podcast.

Don: Yeah, man.

Sarah: Because, what is it that… there’s a bible verse that talks about, like without… what is it? Like, perfect, wait perfect love casts out fear. And something about a tie between faith and fear. And I can’t remember what that is. But there is a tie between faith and fear. And so what I will say is, my biggest struggle you just nailed on the head, is fear.

Don: Right, that’s, you know-

Sarah: So this lack of faith is coming from this immense fear. And I was very fearful.

Don: But you also know, and I’m going to plug Zach Williams a Christian singer. His song’s one of my favorites, we play it at church, Fear is a Liar. And it is. It’s a liar.

Sarah: Yeah. It is.

Don: And I believed that lie for 59 years.

Sarah: Yeah. No, it is.

Don: So I’m glad you’re opening up about it in your 30s.

Sarah: Well, and so what ended up happening was, talking about that lie is, that I got off the phone with my family, and I went into the other room where my son was sleeping. And he was, I don’t know, six, seven, eight months at that point. And he was sleeping in his crib. And I sat down on the floor. And this is why I haven’t told this story… that in the last eight years, the son that I was pregnant with is 14 now. So, I think about 10 years ago I started sharing it a little bit. And as time goes on I just don’t care anymore. So, I sat down on the floor and I cried. And I have been through some stuff in my life. And yet this was the… I call this day, it was February 7, 2005, I know the date, February 7, 2005 is the date that I call the worst day of my life and my best day of my life. It was the worst day of my life because it was so dark, it was so dark. I’d grown up in a pro-life family and I pride myself on being pro-life. But at that moment I could see it.

Don: You were asking some hard questions weren’t you?

Sarah: I was scared. I was very, very scared. And I looked at my son. I was dealing with a lot of baby blues and stuff too after he was born. And I looked at my son and I thought, “How can I take care of two babies when I don’t even feel like I can take care of one?” And let alone, how am I going to survive this. And I sat on the floor and I sobbed. And it was so dark, it was like a pitch black room in my mind, in my heart. I was sitting there sobbing. And all of a sudden, like a light switch, like when you flip a light switch and the room fills with bright light light, it was like a light switch switched. And I heard audibly, “My grace is sufficient.”

Don: Wow.

Sarah: And I heard Jesus’ voice. And there’s an Amy Grant song that talks about the peace the past is understanding. And I was filled with complete peace at that light switch, at that flip. “My grace is sufficient.” And I will tell you, that the words went straight to my brain. It was like they bypassed my ears, they were audible, they were like physically audible. But they went straight to my brain, they bypassed my ears. I know that if anyone else was in that room they would not have heard the voice, because it went straight to my brain. And it’s the hardest thing to describe. Also, I don’t remember any more, or remember what I thought. But I remember thinking that I’ll never hear that voice… the voice you don’t hear in a human’s voice, it had the strength of a man’s voice and the compassion of a female voice.

Sarah: And I’ve never heard any voice like that. And I will say that the first thing I thought was, like, I just thought, “What’s grace?” I was just like, “Grace is a female’s name.” But I was filled with so much peace, that I stood up, and I walked into my bedroom. I left my son’s bedroom and walked into my bedroom, and I literally fell asleep before my head hit the pillow. And Matt told me, I was telling this story to friends years ago-

Don: That’s not only grace, that’s peace, and peace.

Sarah: … yeah, that was grace. I was telling the story to some friends and Matt goes, he said something… and yeah, he had been awake the whole time. And he actually remembers me… he goes, “You were sobbing and you got up and I was waiting for you to start talking, and then I realized you were completely asleep.” And I was like, “Yeah.” So what ended up happening was, it took about three days, it kind of like Novocaine, it kind of wears off. Like, I was just filled with so much peace that it protected me, and it just slowly wore off. And then after about three days I had to start digging into scripture. Because the anxiety came back. And so one of the first things I did was to search out what grace was. Because, to me it was just a girl’s name. And so, I found out that grade is God’s unmerited or unearned favor for sinful mankind.

Sarah: And it is in 2 Corinthians 12, when Paul is boasting about the weaknesses that he has, because he says, “Jesus says my grace is sufficient for you. For my power is made perfect in weakness.” And the apostle Paul goes on to say, “Therefore I will boast all the more in my weaknesses and hardships and insults…” I’m not quoting it word for word, but… because God’s Grace is shown in all of those. So, in my weaknesses I did not think that I could… so here’s God’s Grace on my life, I did not think that I could take care of one child, and I now have six children. So we went on to have… God just showed me so much about his love and his mercy, and how much he adores children through in his care for me and our family. And we went on to have four biological children and two… we have legal guardianship of our fifth child, and we just legally adopted our sixth child. So that is my story-

Don: Wow. Yeah, that’s quite a story.

Sarah: Of God’s Grace.

Don: You know, for you to go back to the day we met, I’m looking at you and all those young ones, you know, I’m just a hillbilly, I couldn’t help [inaudible 00:19:19]. Okay, I’m looking at the one I’m going to coach, and looking at you, and looking at him. Okay, mathematically this aint working out, this aint right.

Sarah: What do you mean? Oh, the age!

Don: Yeah. Because he looks so much older than he really is, to me. I’m like, “Wait a minute, wait a minute.” But anyway, it was really funny, because I [crosstalk 00:19:36]

Sarah: Well, we also are different skin colors.

Don: Yeah, I know, right. I was looking at it, you know, I’m just a redneck and I’m going, “Wait a minute, where are they from?”

Sarah: Well, that’s funny. Because my oldest, who we just legally adopted, we have to wait until they’re… yeah, we just legally adopted our adult daughter, we’ve had her for many years though. But, she’s 20, she just turned 20 last week. And I’m 37, so you know, do the math there, but…

Don: So, back to you and the grace.

Sarah: Yes.

Don: Because I’m fixing to think you’re getting ready to close up here. I want you to do this for me, like we started out with. In a very short sentence, sum up what you believe grace is. In your own personal walk and spiritual…

Sarah: That’s a really good question. Because I keep saying, when I keep saying the definition which is God’s unmerited favor for sinful mankind. But if I was going to make it personal…

Don: Yeah, make it your story.

Sarah: … it’s God unearned love for me.

Don: Amen. That’s powerful. So glad you’re sharing that with me today.

Sarah: And for everyone.

Don: Yeah. They all get it, right?

Sarah: Thanks for interviewing me today, and sorry I just talked too much, oh my goodness.

Don: No, that’s why we get along so good, because neither one is going to shut up. Jeff’s over here looking at us like, “You know, I’m getting hungry over here”

Jeff: I always want to [crosstalk 00:21:00]

Sarah: I know, do you want to close this out?

Don: [crosstalk 00:21:01] Dad.

Jeff: Well…

Don: Come on Gilligan, close out this.

Jeff: Yeah. No, this has been really something to listen to, Sarah. As a father, it’s humbling. It’s very cool that your mom and I were just a part of your story, and that we’ve been a part, and hopefully will continue to be a part.

Don: You still are.

Jeff: Yeah.

Don: That’s what I envy in you, you still are. Some of us don’t have that luxury.

Jeff: Yeah. It’s very cool. And my hope, Don, is that the kiddos in your life understand what a really cool dad they have, because they do.

Don: Everything’s in God’s hand sir, and he’ll take care of it. Thank you for being concerned.

Jeff: And so, really I think in all this, as we’re relating it to Journey, one of the things that I think is important to say is, for a lot of people listening today, Sarah’s story is like, “What was she smoking?” You know? But guys, here’s the thing. Look at all the sort of things you hear every day and the way the world is. And just consider that maybe there is something to this. And maybe there is a God that loves us. And maybe there is a God that loves you, and how can you lean into that and move forward.

Don: they can start their journey right here with us.

Jeff: Just start the journey right here.

Don: That’s what this is all about.

Jeff: Exactly. So, reach out to us. There’s ways to do that, at journeycoaching.org, there’s Facebook, Instagram. But actually just reaching out and making those connections, and to help us to know where you’re at and how we can help you on your journey, we would love to do that.

Don: Leave a comment in the comment section on the website.

Jeff: Absolutely.

Don: Please do, leave us a comment, we’ll get back to you.

Sarah: Yeah, on social media.

Don: Wouldn’t you just love to have Don show up at your door.

Sarah: Yeah.

Don: Let me in, let me in.

Jeff: Thanks for listening today, and join us again,.

Sarah: Thank you.

Jeff: Take care.

Sarah: Bye.

Speaker 4: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time, and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org, and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Speaker 4: (singing)

Gender Stereotypes Debunked.

Regardless of gender, we are all meant for connection. Is there something keeping you from building relationships? Whether it be pride, unrealistic expectations or even stereotypes – you were meant to connect.


Transcription of the Podcast


Don: I know, I’m just saying this for me, I’m always too prideful to let anybody not know that I wasn’t Mr. Popular and everything was going smooth when my whole world was crumbling down around me. I couldn’t connect with my kids for lots and lots of years. [inaudible 00:00:16] rebuilding something that I destroyed 13 years ago. It takes time, but it’s not something I was ever willing to share with anybody until I started on my Journey Venture last summer.

Don: (music).

Don: Hi, Jeff.

Jeff: Good afternoon, Don.

Don: [crosstalk 00:00:43] so I understand we’re going to talk about relationships today.

Jeff: Relationships, yes.

Don: Awesome.

Jeff: It is.

Don: Those could be, between you and I, what do we want to go with, probably work, family?

Jeff: Yeah, it all fits in, right? It all fits in, yeah.

Don: How relationships maybe struggle-

Jeff: How they struggle, and especially with guys, right?

Don: Because we like to talk about football, NASCAR.

Jeff: Packers, oh the Packers. Yeah.

Don: We don’t have [inaudible 00:01:13].

Jeff: Dale Earnhardt, he just … Is Dale Earnhardt even racing anymore? I don’t even know. That’s probably back from the ’80s. Anyway, so yeah, before we started today, off air we were talking a little bit, it seems like gals can open up a little bit more, talk a little bit more about things that matter. But, what were you saying? Something like, “Guys could meet each other three years later-“

Don: Oh yeah, I know, right. You just bump into a buddy you haven’t seen. I had a trucking buddy just call me a month ago, true story. I hadn’t heard from Jimmy forever, and he called, “Hey, buddy, what are you doing?” I’m like, “Man,” we haven’t seen each other in 10 years, but after we said, “Hey and what’s going on? I’m still trucking.” I’m like, “I’m home, not working.” So we’re all caught up, but women, on the other hand, you’re worried about people’s hair, another child, a lot of dialogue there. Guys, we’re in maybe 90 seconds, we’re caught up. See you in five years, we’re good.

Jeff: Exactly.

Don: With that being said, what we were talking about earlier, of course, I know for me, we don’t get into that relationship thing as much as women do. I mean, I think there’s science out there that verifies women’s brains and men’s brains work completely different, and thank God they do.

Jeff: Right, right. Yeah, what’s that book? Men Are Mars, Women Are From Venus or something like that.

Don: Mars, yeah, Mars and Venus. We’re just from two different kinds of [crosstalk 00:02:45].

Jeff: And we could learn something from women in this thing, because here, us guys, we go through life and it’s … Especially like this American dream thing, we’re living the American dream.

Don: What is that?

Jeff: Yeah, what is that? But, man, we’re all about that and we’re going to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and when the going gets tough, man, we’re going to man up more. We’re going to man up and we’re just going to-

Don: Well, here again, don’t you think, Jeff, possibly that’s just the way we’ve been trained and brought up as our parents? You and I are basically the same age, 60ish. We’re just taught that men do this and women do that. I mean, this sounds cliché and old-fashioned, but it’s not that way anymore. All these women are working, they’ve got jobs, there’s some stay-at-home dads. But, when you mentioned to me, just before we started recording today, about relationships, it just made me think back to all the things that I missed out in life by letting money and jobs take over my life, that it very much did for so many years. From a young man to age 57, when I was forced to quit working because of my health and back and stuff like that. But, I didn’t realize until that point in my life, my gosh, if you were to say, “How was life for you, Don, with your family and kids?” To be real about it, it was all lost. I mean, I’ve had wives walk out of my life because, “He worked too much,” was the rumor that I heard. It’s not a joke.

Jeff: Well, that’s interesting that you say that.

Don: That’s what I was told.

Jeff: Yeah, and you didn’t say, “wife”, you said, “wives” so it’s more than one. So here’s the other thing I think, and this is … I don’t want to pick too much on guys here, because women … I think it all applies. But, isn’t it amazing sometimes as just human beings, how we’ll go a direction and we go, “Hmm, what could I have learned from that?” But, we keep going that same direction and it’s like … Which is what Journey … As people listen to this on the Journey site, or however they’re listening to it, if they’re Journey, that’s what we want to do is help people. If you’re heading south, that’s okay, right? We all head south at some point. But, lets re-calibrate and maybe we can’t turn true north, maybe we never get true north. Nobody’s perfect, right? But, at least lets re-calibrate and at least point more towards north.

Don: Well, we just got to find direction. Let’s pick that one apart [inaudible 00:05:29] would say. We’re going to unpack that.

Jeff: Unpack it.

Don: Direction. I was headed in a lot of directions in life. I’m a multi-tasker, if things we’re going on, I did farming at a young age, and all kinds of other sideline businesses, just again, thinking that I was being that good guy, that man that’s providing for the family. When I look back now, and even then, but couldn’t change directions, because in my 30s, so focused on … had a very good job at a management position, and it was a seven day week in the ag businesses. I didn’t realize all this stuff until just this last few years, “Wow, you sure missed out on a lot of stuff.” But, as a guy, here again, we just think that that’s what we’re designed to do. Boy, I’d hate to see … and that’s why we’re doing this today, I think, if I understand you right, is to let you guys out there know that there’s a whole lot more to life than working and money and the things that you have. Because, as Jeff mentioned the word journey, and that’s what we’re doing here, is the journey that I’ve been on for the last 14 months is the coolest journey I’ve ever been on, because it allows me to have time to pay attention to what’s going on in my life, which I always did in the working world, but I didn’t pay attention, obviously, to my relationships, because they all crumbled.

Don: Even with my children, those dissolved and still are just being rebuilt as we record this today. We’re still working on it. Things are going good, but I’m telling you, it’s been 13 years since the major break up with all three of my children, and we’re just repairing that now. I guess, my message to the guys is, slow down, take a look at your family, your wife, your kids. I mean, anything can be worked out, and Journey really helps us do that when we find another guy to mentor with and sit down and talk about stuff, because, let’s face it, Jeff, you don’t want to … You and I haven’t seen each other for six months, you don’t want to share your personal problems with me because you’re a guy. You don’t want me to see you sweating and struggling, do you, because that’s shameful.

Jeff: Yeah, let me … Let me run off on that a little bit. The way I was raised is, yeah, you just don’t divulge any of that stuff.

Don: Never let them see you sweat.

Jeff: Yeah, never let them … Exactly, never let them see you sweat. Now, that caused me a lot of internal angst and a lot of sweating over the years, some high anxiety times. I still … It’s hilarious, actually, that I’m involved in anything about coaching, because my kids will tell you that … Terry, my wife, has been the coach of the family. Here’s my idea of coaching, it’s like, “There’s the thing that needs to be done. Go do it. Don’t hurt yourself. Let me know if you need any help, but just go get it done.”

Don: Right.

Jeff: I’ve been really good over the years at keeping people at a distance. Yeah, before we started this podcast, Don and I, we had lunch, we talked for about half an hour, and that’s something that I just haven’t done a whole lot in my life. I don’t have 25 good friends in my life, so I look at this and I go, “Hmm, am I weird? Am I unique?” No, I mean, that’s kind of the common thing, right? I mean, we’ve got tons of maybe friends on Facebook, but how many real friends do we have that we can call up and just say, “Hey, this thing just happened in my life, this just sucks, and I just need somebody to talk about this thing.” Especially guys, right? I mean, we just don’t do that.

Don: Well, that’s why I think we just kind of spitball the idea of doing a little brief podcast on relationships, and you’re sharing now that you don’t have a lot of friends. I did not know that. This is why I think it’s important to say at this point, we didn’t even know that we were going to do this, but this is now meant so other men out there can hear that, “Here’s some guy that just admitted that he didn’t have a lot of friends when it comes to male friends.” I think all of us fit that mold of, here again, the man thing. I don’t want to beat this into the ground, but I know, I’m just saying this for me. I’m always too prideful to let anybody not know that I wasn’t Mr. Popular and everything was going smooth when my whole world was crumbling down around me. I couldn’t connect with my kids for lots and lots of years, as I said earlier, we’re just rebuilding something that I destroyed 13 years ago.

Don: It takes time, but it’s not something I was ever willing to share with anybody until I started on my Journey Venture last summer. So now I’ve been able to open up more about that and that’s why I think we’re laying this down and recording it, to let … We’ve done a lot of recordings. We’ve got women, Sarah, Terry, [inaudible 00:10:55] and stuff, but we really haven’t just heard a guy podcast, so we just kind of threw this together last minute, over a sandwich. We said, “Let’s just talk about some guy stuff.” So ladies, we love you, but you’re just not going to be here today.

Jeff: We need to wrap it up because I think it’s a good start, I think there’ll be some other good conversations along this line. But, the point being, “Hey, if you’re out there, you’re hearing this, and you’re sort of prompted, you’re sort of sensing, “You know what? I’m just tired of pulling myself up from my bootstraps. I’m tired of, well …” Well, Don’s got this term.

Don: I got the phrase. I mean, it’s so easy. Life is tough, right? I’m sure you want to get it right, don’t you, Jeff? You want more friends and good life, right?

Jeff: Yeah.

Don: Well, we at Journey want to help. We want to do that, and you and I will help the people. I’m going to start coaching next week, this coming Sunday I’ll start coaching for the first time, coming along side a 16-year-old boy.

Jeff: Yeah.

Don: Well, there’s a weird twist. A 61-year-old man coaching a 16-year-old boy, how much times have changed. But, based on my life, and the lack of good things and the relationships that were destroyed, I am just completely blessed that I’m going to get to work with a teenage young man that I’ve met and guide him in the direction where he doesn’t travel that path of no relationships like I did.

Jeff: Well, and that’s the other thing too. Let’s face it, and I’m not a counselor. I kid people, “My counselor wife, Terry, she swims in the deep end of the pool, I swim in the shallow end.” But, I do know that there’s a lot of people out there, 15, 16-year-olds, and their emotional maturity sometimes gets kind of stuck in that 15 or 16-year-old mindset. So there’s people out there listening today that are, yeah, 60, 70, 25, 30, whatever it is, you got to … It’s really important to look at yourself in the mirror and say, “How much deeper have I grown since I was a teenager, and would it be better if I grew emotionally in my emotional health, my physical health, and my spiritual health, and how do I do that?” Well, that’s where there’s some people around the table, there’s a great process, there’s a seven session coaching process. It has been really, really developed well by some really smarter people than I, over the last five plus years.

Don: It’s a great book.

Jeff: Yeah, 10 revisions on this little guide. It’s what? Probably 80 pages maybe?

Don: Yeah.

Jeff: Seven sessions. But, 10 revisions, coaching dozens of people, and it’s really good stuff. So I guess the call to action here is, first of all, thanks for listening, hopefully some people, some guys made it through the whole-

Don: Yeah, I hope so.

Jeff: [crosstalk 00:14:07], it’s like, “I don’t want to hear this. I just want to continue to be in my little bubble.” For those of you that are still listening that really want to find out more, just take a step, reach out to us, it’s journeycoaching.org. There’s a phone number there, there’s ways to connect with us. It’s just, again, by connecting, you’re not making a commitment for a lifetime, you’re not making a commitment even for seven sessions. You’re just taking a step to just find out more and how it applies to your situation, and again, how we can help and come along side and-

Don: Just take a look.

Jeff: We all grow together.

Don: What I’ll close by saying is just take a really hard look at a journey that I jumped on not even a year ago, that I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and it might become my trademark, “I hope this journey never stops.”

Jeff: Yeah, amen. All right.

Don: Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff: Thanks, Don.

Speaker 3: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org, and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.Speaker 3: (music).

Overcoming the Fear of Discouragement

From overcoming the fear of discouragement to tips and tricks on goal setting, join Sarah and Don as they interview special guest, JoJo.


Transcription of the Podcast


JoJo: I believe in miracles. I think Sarah does too, we’ve talked about that, but Sarah’s always had just a huge faith in something that she is pursuing for the right reason.

Don: Right.

JoJo: And I think that’s really what’s going to make goal setting, or success, or a great mentor, is someone who is seeking a goal that is a higher goal.

Sarah: Welcome back to The Journey Podcast. My name is Sarah Bandwits. Today I have two guests with me, Don Evans. How are you today?

JoJo: Good sir. How are you doing?

Sarah: I’m good. JoJo Hawks, how are you today?

JoJo: Above average, thank you.

Don: That a girl.

JoJo: Happy to be here.

Sarah: Thank you both for being on the podcast. Today we are talking about goal setting, which is great for the new year, and you two both are excellent with goal setting, so I’m really happy to interview both of you regarding that. JoJo, you’ve never been on the podcast before, so will you do a quick introduction of who you are?

JoJo: Absolutely. My name’s JoJo Hawks. I have three children. I’ve been going to school full time now for at least a year and a half. I’ve got a degree in journalism. I’ve been a computer programmer, software project manager and-

Sarah: Licensed massage therapist.

JoJo: Licensed massage therapists with hospice for the past 16 years, which is really what I love doing is working with people and helping people, which is why I’m going to nursing school now.

Sarah: Very excellent, but awesome.

Don: Good for you.

Sarah: Yeah, she’s amazing. And single mom too.

JoJo: Yes.

Sarah: Doing all that as a single mom.

Don: That’s going to be hard to follow when they ask what I do.

JoJo: Give it up Don.

Sarah: Yeah Don, give us a quick overview.

Don: Well, I’ve got a PhD and a bachelor’s degree in life, hard life and many others we won’t mention. But yeah, just been on fire for a year and a passion to help people in their spiritual walk a little prison ministry and I’ve been doing a few podcasts with the Journey Coaching thing and encouraging people to get involved with that a lot, which I’ve went through it. So that’s a little snapshot of me JoJo.

JoJo: Awesome.

Sarah: Oka, so when I think about both of you, and you guys have never met.

Don: No ma’am.

Sarah: Five minutes ago, you guys didn’t know who each other was.

JoJo: Yes.

Sarah: But I’ll say this, knowing both of you pretty well I think the one thing that I would say embodies each of you individually is that book, Who Moved my Cheese?

Don: Right. I haven’t read the book, but I’ve heard about it.

Sarah: You’ve heard about it?

Don: I’m ODC, I just don’t like my stuff moved, period. It just really bugs me. How about you?

JoJo: I’m trying to give up cheese.

Don: Are you? No, please don’t. That’s bad.

JoJo: That’s actually one of my goals.

Don: Right. Well set a new one please. Don’t worry about cheese, man.

Sarah: You’re going to have a really crabby 2020 then.

JoJo: No, one of my goals is vegetarian.

Sarah: Wow.

JoJo: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay, this is the big, how do you guys set goals? Wait, come up with goals, set them and then implement them? Because you both do that really, really well.

JoJo: I think a lot of what I’ve done over the years is try to be obedient to what God’s calling me to do, which is ultimately to be a good steward of the gifts and talents that he’s given me, and so like when it comes to vegetarianism, some of my numbers weren’t so great this year when I got my blood work back. And God gave me a body, so it seems like I should be a good steward of that body, even though sometimes when I’m studying I’m in denial and I like doughnuts, creamy bun buns to be specific, so I’m trying to work towards that.

JoJo: It’s hard, it’s a process and I also feel like God has a good way of convicting me to do certain things. And thankfully it’s not all at the same time. It has to deal with the situations that I go through where he opens my eyes. It’s kind of like taking the blinders off, or peeling back layers of an onion, not, “Hey look, this needs to change.” You know? So that’s one goal that I have. Going to school, becoming a massage therapist and going to nursing school, I feel like God’s kind of been knocking at that door, pounding on that door, bulldozing that door for a long time.

Sarah: How did you do that while being a single mom? Because accomplishing goals is really systematically small steps moving forward. How did you do that and still overcome hurdles, especially as a single mom? I’m sure that there were a lot of hurdles just like I think just being tired, probably a big one.

JoJo: Yeah. Honestly, I don’t get that tired, which at church right now, they’re doing a long series on joy and they talk about, joy comes from faith and I think that’s one of the reasons why I don’t get that tired is that I have a really strong faith and that keeps me motivated to go on and the hope for what’s beyond that. I think in goal setting, I call it creative creative financing when it comes to anything that takes money.

Sarah: What do you mean by that?

JoJo: Never say never, because there’s always a way to get things done, you might just have to be more creative. I have a marketing background too, so I don’t let money necessarily stand in my way. I look at what would God have for me and to try really to look fear in the face and say, “Yeah, but I don’t care.” Because-

Sarah: That’s a good point.

JoJo: I think fear is not of God, and so when you’re scared to do something, that might actually be a really healthy thing. And when you’re stepping out in faith, when you’re doing something that everyone else is going to think is crazy, you might have to just think, yeah, but there’s so many things that God and his apostles did that are seemingly crazy in today’s world, but yet I have faith that it’s all going to work out for the right reasons. It’s going to come to the best and that it can.

Sarah: JoJo, do you have any personal examples? Any stories about how you’ve overcome that fear or even discouragement as you’re reaching your goals?

JoJo: I think when I had a really challenging time with my divorce, kind of seeing the future was a huge goal for me. Like, what is this going to look like when you’re walking out into the, “I don’t know what’s going to happen.” And the more I started leaning into God, the more he just started providing the right things for me, the right people, the right scripture, the right Bible study, the right attorney, the right information that I needed, Christian people, mentors to give me hope. And against that I also got a lot of chances to really, he encouraged me by giving me feedback, whether that was through people or scripture or action, when things came back to me and I really felt like, wow, he’s encouraging me or reinforcing what I already thought was true by what he’s laying out in front of me, but it never happens according to my day planner. It’s always his schedule, which can be very frustrating.

Don: He’s kind of funny about that stuff, isn’t he? He wants us to hear a thing in his time, doesn’t he?

JoJo: Yeah, he’s got his own schedule.

Don: Finances had to be a concern for you, stepping out as a single mother though didn’t it?

JoJo: Yes.

Don: So if you’re a goal setter, what was your goal for finances? Thinking, “Okay now I’m a single mother.” Not unless your husband was rich and you’re got a lot of money, I don’t know.

JoJo: I have a lot of creative financing. I’m okay with that.

Sarah: She’s done amazing. I mean, because you got a house.

JoJo: Yes, I’ve purchased the house. I look at the big picture, like when I purchased my home I knew it was possible to buy a home with no money down, so I did that. I did a 100% financing so I had to do it on my own based on even though basically my credit got tanked out because he took all my credit when he closed all of our accounts without talking to me, because I had a great credit before I got married. I had no idea that this was coming so I didn’t have my own, credit card or whatever. So you know, I was starting over, but at the same time I’m like, “I’m going to do this. I need to do this.” And you know, obviously I made a budget. I’ve always been very budget conscious and looking at provision and trying really hard to just think, how did my kid’s life look before this and how do I want it to look like after this? And so I just worked really hard to make it look to the kids like it was seamless.

Sarah: Well and your house. Okay, story time. What happened with the paint on the stairs?

JoJo: My son like kicked a gallon of paint down the stairs on the carpet that I just had laid.

Sarah: And you had a neighbor. Okay. So you bought this house, which is super adorable.

JoJo: Thank you.

Sarah: And was in really good condition even before you bought it, but you’ve really made it your own. And the way that you’ve made it your own is doing a lot of things yourself and having friends and family do things, one being laying this carpet. No, but you paid someone to lay the carpet, right?

JoJo: Yes, I paid someone to lay the carpet. Yes.

Sarah: And then just knowing you, I’m sure that you turn that paint issue into something positive.

JoJo: Yeah, it was definitely a learning experience for all of us because I’m let “Oh no.” And I’m scrubbing and my son’s crying because he didn’t mean to do that. And we still laugh about how he did that and he managed to put a plastic tray to bake potatoes on in the oven.

Sarah: Oh that’s right.

JoJo: Super smart guy. Super smart. But he’s learning a lot. We’re all learning a lot. I think as a family, we look back at it and laugh and we were all scrubbing and soaking and things like that. One thing I attribute my kids too is that they’re great team members. I mean-

Sarah: Your family does work really good together as a team.

JoJo: So we just come together and just really try to lift each other up, or help with homework, or whatever we need to do to like get her done and move on, because that’s what we do is we support each other.

Don: So JoJo, after what you were just saying about all the things with the goals and how you’ve really had to dig in and do so many things in your life with your kids and stuff, do you feel like there was ever one single moment where you were just something was going on, whether it was a pain or the kid’s homework where you just really felt like God’s hand was there and you’re like, “Wow.” you just got this tingling feeling inside like “I just feel his presence here and this must be why this is happening.” Do you ever experience anything like that?

JoJo: Yeah, there’s a lot of different situations in my life when maybe something stopped that I expected was going to continue to keep going, but then God suddenly opened a door and I’m like, “Okay, this has to be God because I never saw this coming, and I never skipped a beat and it looks too good to be true.” Kind of a thing. There’s been a couple of different changes with part time jobs that I’ve taken on where I think a lot of people might be just, really like, “Oh this is so sad. I’m going to dwell on this for a really long time.” And instead I was like, “Okay God, you have a different plan for me and I’m just going to keep my eyes open and take a look at what you have for me and what blessings are going to come from this.”

JoJo: There’s a friend of mine I met through massage therapy, ironically she now goes to the same church that I do and she’ll call me and bless me to go see someone that we know, which is a huge blessing for me. Timing is everything and it always seems to work out so it’s a blessing for both of us. There’s been times, like when I was going through my divorce, when I was in a Bible study with a group of other mothers from our school and just reading the scripture and I think it was specifically how to hear God speaking to you and getting that reinforcement or confirmation from scripture or other people, and it had specific steps on how to do that. And it was like, systematically step by step, I was being confirmed in, “Yes, this is the right thing to do.” Whether it was scripture or God placing in front of me someone to talk to, to just get that Christian perspective again as a mentor of, “Hey, you know this is the right track you’re on. This is what you should really be looking or thinking about or reading about scripture.”

Don: I’m dying to ask a question over here, I really am.

JoJo: Sure.

Don: With all that being said, and I understand that so well, where in your schedule, I’m a single person, but I don’t have kids.

Sarah: Well, you have kids, they’re just older, they’re just adults.

Don: Right, but she’s-

Sarah: She’s in the thick of it.

Don: Bless her heart. She’s got little ones she’s raising up in Mao’s defeat and whatnot like that. But while I’m sitting over here listening to you and so inspired by what you’re saying, but my burning questions, I just can’t wait to ask, as you see, I just interrupted you. That’s what I do. Where do you find the time, and really think about this for a second, where do you find time to listen to what God has to say to you? Because you have already convinced me that where I come from, we would say, you’re just working your tail off with your kids. Scripture, people calling on you, you’re seeing people, you’re in Bible studies. Where do you carve out in a 24 hour period of time to go, “You know what God, it’s just you and me and I want to listen.” Because I’ve been working really hard at making my goal heavier in that area because I have this gift to can’t shut up and talk all the time, so I’m carving out. Where do you carve yours out of JoJo?

JoJo: Sometimes it’s in the minivan behind the wheel.

Don: That a girl. I’m a trucker, we like to look at concrete, listen to God.

JoJo: Sometimes it’s just on my way to get the kids, pick the kids up, go to work, whatever, go to school. I go to a Christian college right now, so I’ve literally sat at my professor’s desk, looked him in the eye and say, “Can you pray for me that my brain starts to understand chemistry.” And when I did my final, across one of the pages, I didn’t write scripture, but I said, “Dear Jesus, please bless me today.”

Don: Yeah. So you know, I’m not college kind of guy or stuff’s so I’m listening to you talk, I’m really curious as to all the people that you’ve talked about. Who do you kind of single out as mentors in your life that really inspired you to want to travel this path that seems, from where I’m sitting across the room from you, appears to be pretty hard, especially for a woman and I’m a guy. But I had mentors growing up, a couple, three farmers in my life from a little boy that really shaped me because unfortunately appearance didn’t. So I admired them and looked on and I can still call them till the day I die, my mentors. Can I ask who mentored you to get you to be so driven?

JoJo: Hmm, driven.

Sarah: You are very driven.

JoJo: Well Sarah, you have definitely mentored me.

Sarah: Okay.

Don: Don’t you all go getting emotional on me now.

JoJo: I know, I get weepy. I think just in the fact that I believe in miracles, I think Sarah does too. We’ve talked about that, but Sarah’s always had just a huge faith in something that she is pursuing for the right reason. And I think that’s really what’s going to make goal setting, or success, or great mentor is someone who is seeking a goal that is a higher goal.

Don: How do you go about when you set, because I’m curious, the way I do things, I set goals, I try to achieve them, but when I’m getting close to them being done, I can see it coming together, then my psychologist says, “You’re a really extreme forward thinker. You’re always looking for the next project.” I would think with your circumstances, with the little ones again and then working, school and all that and where do you find time to set new goals? Or you just got so many that you’re like, “Well, this bucket’s full and it’s going to take the next five years to get all these accomplished.”

Sarah: Well, and JoJo is very creative.

JoJo: Yes, and they explode. I mean, they just come to me. I’ve had several people tell me before that I am the idea person, that I see things come together in a different kind of way.

Sarah: So before we wrap up this podcast and in wrapping up this podcast, Journey Coaching, a lot of it is about working in your strengths and JoJo, I think that that’s one reason I’m excited to have you on the podcast today is because you very much, you embody someone who has a strong faith and who works in their strengths.

JoJo: Thank you.

Sarah: I don’t know if you even realize that that’s what you do, but you do. You lean on your strengths and you lean on God and then you work in those strengths and as a result you’re able to accomplish these amazing things in your life.

JoJo: God gives us gifts and he gives us deficits and so our job is to go find people who have the gifts we don’t.

Sarah: Yes.

JoJo: And you bring them to the table.

Sarah: Yeah, and you have a lot of people around you.

Don: Have you been through Journey Coaching already?

JoJo: I’m sorry?

Don: Have you been through Journey Coaching already?

JoJo: No.

Don: Okay, sounds like you have/

Sarah: I know, actually she’d be a great coach, but she doesn’t even know. We’ll have that conversation off.

JoJo: Well, when I was a manager, when I would fill my team, I was like, nobody brings everything to the table so you really need to look and handpick those people who are going to bring everything you need to the table and appreciate their uniqueness and that they’re going to bring something to the table and it’s a synergy of everybody working together. It’s like the community in Christ, we aren’t meant to be alone. Together we’re much stronger, much more powerful.

Sarah: And that community together, I mean people want to be around JoJo because of her positivity and because you can tell she genuinely cares about people and yeah.

Don: Yeah, she does. You can see in her eyes when you start pressing her about God, the eyes are getting watery. That’s why I said, just don’t get all teary up here. I’ve got shirt sleeves.

JoJo: I can’t help it.

Don: No ma’am. That a girl.

JoJo: It’s just how I roll.

Sarah: Well thanks for being on the Journey Podcast.

Don: You’re a good actor too. That was good. I like that. Amen sister.

JoJo: Nice to meet you Don.

Don: You too, it’s a pleasure.

JoJo: Yeah. Nice to-

Don: Next time warn me when you’re coming, just don’t show up.

JoJo: Okay, I will.

Sarah: If you guys want to learn more, go to journeycoaching.org and we will talk to you later. Bye.

Automated voice: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org your journey starts now, but.

Loneliness Hurts

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, Sarah, Terry and Don walk through loneliness during different seasons in life. They offer encouragement to those who are feeling lonely.


Transcription of the Podcast


Transcript of the Podcast:

Terry: You know, everybody goes through a period, a short period where you’re lonely. But chronic loneliness kind of makes us more susceptible to things like depression, even Alzheimer’s disease. It lowers our immune system, it stresses our cardiovascular system, and it can actually affect how long we live, because loneliness is not something to just ignore. If you’re feeling lonely right now, do something. Reach out, call somebody, call a hotline, find a counselor, a therapist, a psychiatrist, psychologist, somebody, and just say, hey, I’m really, really lonely. Can you help?

Sarah: Welcome back to The Journey podcast. I’m Sarah Banowetz, and today we are asking the question, how do you cope with loneliness during the holidays? In the studio with me is Don Evans. Welcome Don.

Don: Hi Sarah.

Sarah: Thanks for being here with us.

Don: You’re welcome. It’s my pleasure.

Sarah: And we have Terry Carlson.

Terry: Hi.

Sarah: As a mental health counselor, it is always good to have you here.

Terry: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Sarah: Thanks for coming. So, many of our listeners may say that they’re surrounded by too many friends and family during the holidays. How big of an issue is loneliness during this time of year?

Terry: Oh, I think, you’re right, a lot of people do have, we’re inundated with invitations, parties, events and so on. But the reality is that loneliness can show up either in the midst of those kinds of things. Have you ever been in a situation where you have been surrounded by people and yet still felt very, very lonely?

Sarah: Yeah.

Terry: And I think that the other possibility too is that there are people who just are plain lonely. They’ve lost family members, they’ve lost friends, other people have moved away, and they just find themselves at the holidays without someone to invite them anywhere.

Sarah: So I would like to hear Don’s input on this.

Don: Yeah, coincidentally I just been thinking about that the last couple of weeks or so. And with my background of, as we’ve recorded on podcasts before, for those that are listening, have heard it before, that created a lot of storms in my family based on my behavior, which led to a dissolving of families, children, relatives, and things of that nature.

Don: So I’m thinking about that a lot lately. And it is a struggle for people. I mean some are afraid to speak out and some are a little bit shy of maybe leaning into a conversation when in turn, I think … What I’ve been thinking about lately is just the peace that I have with my spirituality that has grown immensely over the last six or eight months and I just recommend to people to find peace in yourself, which in turn will help you on those days. When that happens, you really have to decide where your heart is and where you lie in life yourself.

Don: For me, I’ll say for me, before I start judging, say your relatives, an aunt or an uncle or any family members, even your own children for instance, it’s not really up to me to judge what they think, whoever this person may be. Maybe it’s a coworker that you struggle with at work that just doesn’t seem to be in the holiday spirit.

Don: Well, first I would recommend for me, and it’s been helping over the last month or two, is just to look in the mirror at myself and realize that I have to find peace in me, when I look and can recognize the messes with 40 years of experience of messing up your life. And I can see those. Then before I say anything or think anything, I realize, and mentally quietly tell myself, yeah Don, but you’re a mess too. And I’m finding that very helpful, Terry. I think that’s making a difference in the way I view what I think also.

Terry: Well, I think that’s really, really good to try to look inward and just say, what part of this am I playing in it myself?

Don: Yes.

Terry: I think it also happens sometimes. Sometimes we don’t realize it, but the very things that we’re doing can actually make the situation worse. You know, a lot of times when people are lonely, they may be really just trying to avoid rejection from other people. And so they kind of avoid going to parties, or they avoid going to family gatherings and stuff for fear that, well, I’m just going to be rejected and that hurts too much. So I avoid it. And that adds to the loneliness, because you’re right, while you may risk being rejected, there’s that feeling, you don’t get the opportunity to connect with people who might actually be positive.

Don: Well, I completely agree with you, Terry. And we’ve talked about that in various Bible studies and groups that I went to over the years. Then people will say that, gee Don, I wish I could be outspoken like you and really interact. And I take that as a compliment. It’s wonderful.

Don: But I just encourage those folks to just think about where you’re at internally and mentally and don’t back up. Lean in and then people will surround you too. And with those people, I want to convey to all of those, and I do it consistently, I’d love to be alongside of you and help you. When people tell you over and over all your life that we just like the way you act. Okay. That’s all right.

Don: But I also know Terry, there’s a tremendous amount of people that are what you just described. They just don’t know how to get in there and they maybe not go to that family event or something. So I just think that we should really just go with one thing in mind. I’m going to go and have a good time, and can we all just put aside our issues for the day not let them be stressful, and worry to the fact that we just don’t even want to partake in any family events anymore. Maybe just sometimes showing up and just giving it a go and see how it works.

Terry: Yeah, just reach out.

Don: And one other thing that I just thought about is as we look at those friends, relatives or coworkers, if we want to be honest with ourselves, we don’t know what they’re going through. So we have to give them a pass too. Because I know, like I said earlier, a few minutes ago, I’ve lived in a mess most of my life. It’s still not crystal clear, and it never will be, because we’re all sinners. We’re going to make mistakes. And that’s by the grace of God, we can have the peace and show up and not be so judgmental. And I’ve said for years in those situations with families, really, I’ve truly said this, can’t we all just get along today? Come on.

Terry: Well, and Don, you’re an outgoing person yourself. We’ve talked about that before.

Don: Seems to be, yeah.

Terry: But what kind of advice could you give to somebody who maybe isn’t so outgoing and they’re feeling kind of lonely this time of year?

Don: Well, I think again, it comes down to the person, Terry. I mean, are you willing to do the work? And we can spin this another way. As far as I’ve said since 2006, the hardest thing I’ve ever done is being a Christian. I have to work so hard at that based on my extroverted personality and forethinking and quick speaking, and then even coworkers coming up against you to be a Christian. It’s like yeah, that’s all humbug stuff. Well that’s your opinion, and I’m not going to judge you certainly because that’s just wrong of me to do that.

Don: So I think the advice for that person that’s struggling is just to watch some stuff, get involved with somebody that would guide you and have a friend, like I’ve developed in this journey thing, with the coaches and stuff. I have people to reach out. I talk to those coaches, yeah. We get together and have fun times and meals together. And then that gives you a person to go see and express your concerns about that family member or the holiday coming up in Christmas.

Don: It gets pretty complicated, I know. But the main thing that I read and see in my studying is it all starts with you. You’ve got to do something to make your situation go better. And you have to be able to … This is very important, I’m really going to stress on this. You have to listen to other people.

Terry: I think listening is a really good … You make a really good point there.

Sarah: Well, I was going to jump at that’s a great point too.

Don: Yeah, somebody knows your situation, and can tell you what you need to do. Because I’ve been there folks and I’ve done it and I did not listen and that was wrong. So reach out and talk to somebody that you feel close to and ask them what they could do, because they might be able to point you in the right direction. But be open about it. Be open minded.

Sarah: Well, and one thing, I’m an extrovert too, so you got to take what I suggest with a grain of salt. But one thing that I do as an extrovert for any kind of events like this too. So Don, you’re talking about, in general, building relationships and stuff. But as far as when you go to that party, one thing that I do is I look around the room and I find someone who is sitting by themselves.

Terry: That’s an excellent idea.

Sarah: And I go and sit down next to them, and I’ll ask questions. So that goes along with the listening, is I’ll ask questions. So instead of talking. And then it goes into a back and forth. And all of a sudden a half an hour has gone by and other people have joined you. And then if you feel like you don’t really fit in the conversation again, you get up to go get a slice of pie. And then you look around the room again and you find maybe two people are sitting next to each other and not really talking, and you sit down with them.

Sarah: I mean, again, I have a lot of introverts in my family and I know it’s hard when you sit down and no one else is talking. But the main tip is you ask questions.

Terry: Right. Well and I think developing a plan, you’re going to a party, especially if you’re an introvert, develop a plan and think, okay, I’m going to go in and I’m just going to say hi to three people. Or I’m going to ask them how their day is. You’re developing a plan. You’re saying, okay, this is what I’m going to do. So you actually count. Okay, I’ve talked to one, now I’m going to talk to another one. And just kind of do it as an experiment. What happens if I do that?

Sarah: And what if you came up with questions to ask too?

Terry: Sure.

Sarah: Just say, okay, so if it’s for Thanksgiving, Then you could ask them about what their Christmas plans are, or what they are planning on getting their children for Christmas or something like that. Or what their work projects are. But come up with questions ahead of time that you have in your back pocket essentially to ask, so that you don’t have to come up with it on the spot.

Terry: Sure. And I think also doing something good in the situation, volunteering, helping out. We tend to, even introverts tend to feel more competent and more comfortable if they have a role. So call the host ahead of time and say, hey, can I do something for you? Can I go around and refill glasses? That kind of thing. And when you do that, you have more of a role in the thing and you feel a little bit more connected.

Sarah: I naturally do that too. I get up and help when I’m feeling uncomfortable. Another thing is you smile. The biggest thing, even if you don’t talk very much, if you smile at people, they just think you’re the nicest person and they come and talk to you and stuff. I just let the world know, whoever’s listening to The Journey Podcast, that’s my secret of being an extrovert is I just smile. And people mentioned it all the time. They’re like, oh, you’re so nice, I love your smile. And it’s just you can be an introvert and just smile.

Terry: And somebody might even be curious about what you’re smiling about, and come over to find out.

Sarah: I mean, don’t just walk around totally smiling. But when you can’t make eye contact, give them a big smile.

Don: Yeah. But it’s just like Sarah says. It’s very evident that happy people, everybody wants to know what you’re happy about. And we can wear that same smile in Christianity. We can hear the best preachers, wherever you want to listen to them, talk about if you’re … It’ll radiate off of you. And Jeff and I had an instance here a week ago, where a lady just walked by and just overheard us talking. And that just led her to reach out. And it’s amazing how if you’re walking that walk, and talking the talk, and people can see that you’re, whatever it is that you’re on fire about, they want to know.

Don: And I tell people on a regular basis. They go, I don’t know about this church-going thing, Don. You’re inviting us, but I really don’t know about that. I just continue to invite them a couple times and then tell them, hey, come and sit with me. I’m not asking you to go.

Don: But then I leave it alone. I mean, folks, if you’re listening, this works. Try it. They’re going to watch what I do. I’m being watched at all times. And I’m not saying that to pat myself on the back, but people are watching Don, and they’re following. And it’s showing up here as we record this today. There’s people that are going to contact me this week because of what they’ve seen happen, and the happiness that I share wherever I go. They want, I want to know what he’s doing.

Terry: Well, and I think you make a good point here because I think it’s don’t be passive, be active. And if you’re passive, you can sit there and kind of wait for people to come up to you and be lonely or you can be active and look for somebody else who might be lonely like Sarah was saying.

Sarah: Exactly, because with me being an extrovert, I will say that if there are times when I just am not feeling well and I don’t want to be talking with people, I just do the opposite of what I just suggested. So I won’t make as much eye contact, I won’t smile as much, I’ll stay back a little bit further, and then I won’t have those conversations that I usually do as an extrovert.

Don: I got to one up you, because even when I don’t feel good, I’m smiling at people. How you doing? I’m just great man. I’m on my way to meet with Jesus tonight here at church. What are y’all up to?

Sarah: Maybe you’re more of an extrovert than me.

Don: Yeah, well that goes back to the last podcast. That word pretend-aholic. Well in that case, it’s good to be a pretend-aholic that night, because then everybody thinks you’re still happy.

Sarah: Okay. So I want to change the subject slightly. So Terry, with you being a counselor, maybe you can address this more heavy topic, which is for others who are missing loved ones who have passed away or moved away, and in those situations the holidays can be devastatingly lonely.

Terry: Oh absolutely.

Sarah: How do people deal with those kinds of situations?

Terry: I think a lot of what we’ve already talked here really applies, maybe with one additional one. Be really good to yourself. Remind yourself you’re not alone. There are other people who are also going through the same kind of thing. But again, develop a plan. Get out there, try not to be passive. Let people know, find close friends and just say, hey, I’m really struggling with this holiday.

Terry: I remember the year after my dad passed away. It had only been a few months before Christmas and I absolutely didn’t feel like putting up a Christmas tree. It was like, why bother? I just remember feeling like I didn’t even want to celebrate Christmas. And I mentioned that to one of our kids. And they came over and they put up the Christmas tree for us and they decorated. And it felt so good to just feel, to have somebody kind of come around us.

Terry: So if you know somebody who has lost someone right before this holiday or even anytime this year, maybe check with them, how can I bless you? Can I come over and help you with something? Can I bring you a meal? Just realize that they’re the ones who probably are going to have the toughest time this holiday.

Don: Well, and I’ll just add to that one last little thing there. Terry, I like what you said. But I’m going to just make this phrase right up front. Please don’t stay home alone. This alone thing is really bad, folks, because I know, I have traveled that path. And home alone, I’m being silly now, is not the way to go. You need to reach out and talk to anybody you can, just even a passerby friend. Start a conversation, and just make sure that you’re going to plug in somewhere and spend some time with somebody. But please don’t do the alone thing.

Terry: No, I think you make a really good point there. Don. And really what happens too, is everybody goes through a period, a short period where you’re lonely, but chronic loneliness makes us more susceptible to things like depression, even Alzheimer’s disease. It lowers our immune system, it stresses our cardiovascular system, and it can actually affect how long we live, because loneliness is not something to just ignore.

Terry: If you’re feeling lonely right now, do something. Reach out, call somebody, call a hotline, find a friend, find a loved one, find a pastor, find a counselor, a therapist, a psychiatrist, psychologist, somebody, and just say, hey, I’m really, really lonely. Can you help?

Don: Yeah. And just another side note to that loneliness. I can speak with this, with complete confidence. Based on my health in the last 40 years of my life, the loneliness and home alone thing, I can verify doesn’t work. And by making this one statement, it severely affected my health for the rest of my life, because it led to immense drinking. And there’s a lot of people that struggle with drugs and other things. Fortunately, I never did any drugs. But I want to just make this so clear that the alone stuff is just, it’s a Josh Turner song, it’s writing the long black train, and I’m not going to ride that train and I certainly don’t want any of you to.

Sarah: Yes, that’s a good point, Don. So thank you for joining us today as we discuss the impact of loneliness and how that affects us. And our hope is that in listening to this podcast, you feel encouraged, connected, and determined to develop your strengths and to live out your purpose.

Sarah: In concluding the podcast, I do want to leave you with a few questions in order to continue this important discussion. Our hope is that by asking these questions to a trusted friend or coach, you’re able to bridge the gap of loneliness to connection, fear to confidence, and worry to peace.

Sarah: And so the questions I have for you today are what are you going to do? What are your plans for this Thanksgiving and Christmas? What are you planning ahead of time right now so that you can help with connection and avoid loneliness? And then the second question is, what can you also do right now to be prepared for building those relationships during these events?

Sarah: And until next time, live the journey that awaits you. And thank you for listening to the journey podcast. We will see you later.

Terry: Bye.

Don: Bye.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org. And check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.


Don’s Story of God’s Grace

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, special guest, Don shares his story of God’s grace. From self-medication with alcohol to relying on God’s grace to sustain him, Don’s story inspires us in the beauty of God’s grace.

Transcription of the Podcast

Don: Yeah. I’ve been blessed with a few people at my church that are going through Journey as we speak. They want to reevaluate their life and I say to enhance their spiritual growth and let’s face it, Sarah, I mean we can all enhance our spiritual growth. I mean, Jesus wants us to work every day to get… To build a relationship stronger with him. I mean that task and journey are never going to be over.

Sarah: Welcome back to the Journey podcast. I’m Sarah and today I have Don Evans in the studio with me. Hi Don.

Don: Hi Sarah.

Sarah: How are you?

Don: Good. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it a lot.

Sarah: Thanks for being on the podcast. So today we are talking-

Don: Why are you smiling? You’re so happy today.

Sarah: I don’t know, I just like to smile.

Don: You’re smiling because you’re going to ask me about my story right?

Sarah: I know, I got to make you…

Don: Let’s just keep this cool.

Sarah: I got to put you at ease.

Don: I’m at ease, you’re the one I’m concerned about. Let’s go.

Sarah: So today we’re going to talk about the grace of God. And I was wondering if you’d share a little bit of your story.

Don: Oh God, I would love to. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s a journey that started a very, very long time ago. I guess it would probably be… You caught me off guard with this today, which I enjoy because I don’t… And I want everybody to know that none of this is scripted. We’re just talking, aren’t we Sarah?

Sarah: Winging it.

Don: Yeah, and we’re just out there in left field, coming around. Yeah, I guess a history of alcoholism in my life. First got to know a lot about Christ in maybe 01 due to a crash of alcoholism and being in the hospital. Then there was a big gap in there more of that and then really got introduced more so to God when I got baptized in 2006 in a very large Christian Church. And-

Sarah: Don, so why did you end up getting baptized in 2006? What was the catalyst for that happening?

Don: Yeah, I started in 06, kind of leaning into the side of Christianity, watching people, what they were doing inspired me a little bit, I guess to see that their happiness, I guess I’d never experienced that. So I got started in 06 as I said, did pretty good for a while, but due to my lack of faith, I like to call it and my lack of devotion to God. I slid back into my old ways again and managed to stay there for a multitude of years. So we’ll leave out all the middle stuff. But as I said, 06 and I just got sober in October of 2018 so it’s just been a little over a year.

Don: But at that point when I was able to get out and about again about December, it took a couple of months to become human and even be visible in public again. Really plugged in this time, Sarah, and there was a lot of fun and I hope you’ll interrupt at certain points and ask me specific questions whenever you hear me say something that you want to know more about, you could just jump in there and go, wait a minute, what about that?

Don: But I’ll keep going.

Sarah: Well I do want to know about… Okay, so becoming sober in October of 2018 for anyone who’s listening, who may be struggling with that, what was it that caused you to want to go down that route?

Don: Well, what was causing me to stay on the drunk fest or what caused me to want to jump on the Jesus wagon?

Sarah: I almost want to ask both with.

Don: Okay. Big one. Let’s go with the drunk fest. All right. We were talking earlier today, just in an outside conversation about people being lonely. And we just briefly mentioned this morning in the lobby out there and that got me thinking and now you’re asking what created that? Well, it all comes from loneliness. Losing another wife, we won’t count the number of wives. That’s not important. Just was a tailspin in 2015. So from 15 to 18, three solid years, it was drunk every day of the week, seven days a week.

Sarah: And it was dealing with the loneliness?

Don: That, losing everything that I had, through the divorce. And I’m a man, I’ll man up if it was my fault and in this particular marriage it was not. And I’m not going to say any more about it, but I was not at fault and everybody knows that and they’re like, wow, we just can’t believe that she just left and took everything you had. I was on the road trucking at the time, on my own truck. then when the… I call it the resurrection in October, that was only because if I’m honest, which I am because I followed Jesus, like Andy Stanley, I’m a Jesus follower and I love it because I have severe cirrhosis of the liver and I almost died the end of October again and had to go to the hospital and do some procedures there.

Don: And At that point I think, I really think the day that my brother took me into the hospital, I just kind of… God got ahold of me that day and said, you’ve had been playing this game for 18 years of in the hospital, 40 years of drinking. And I just felt, any standard, we’ll call it a nudge, I felt like a thump in the back of the head. Okay, I need to get this and this possibly is my last opportunity. So that’s when I jumped on the Jesus’ bandwagon.

Sarah: What did jumping on the Jesus bandwagon look like, entail?

Don: It always inspired me. It really did. Even years back before I ever even attended church whatsoever. And I just want to know more about it.

Sarah: So what did you do? What steps did you take then? So you leave the hospital and then what was your first step after that?

Don: Go home and start reading the Bible a little bit, but I wasn’t really good at that and started going to church right before Christmas in 18 and since then I’ve stayed plugged in there.

Sarah: And how did you find a church?

Don: I had gone to this church prior years, in the past. Yeah. I actually went to this church, started there in 08, left there in 10 to move back to Illinois to accept a job. It was a job moving venture. And then when I came back in 15 I was too drunk to pay attention. So I didn’t show up at church until December of 18. And so then at that point, I really got plugged into the church and enjoyed doing volunteer work and helping with homeless and seeing their struggles just really led me to think, man, I was almost there, almost homeless person. So just the little bitty things you keep doing on a daily basis, monthly basis. I just really started enjoying it more and seeing how it was affecting me spiritually. And then I took kind of a Christian class that was really in-depth in regards to where our faith is and asking us questions in regards to how we feel about God and Jesus.

Sarah: And was that class through the church?

Don: Yes. Yeah. It was a 10-week class and it was phenomenal and I learned a lot from that. I think if I’m being honest with everybody, which I am, I don’t know why I even say that. I can tell you this, Sarah, that I’m convinced that I found my Holy Spirit in the eighth week. As we were going through the class, we spoke about, I believe it was the eighth week, and getting to know our Holy Spirit was the topic and I did not know my Holy Spirit. It was quite obvious. So I left that meeting that night and went home and I did a lot of praying about it. And it’s just different. I can’t put some sophisticated word on like, oh, it was a revelation or oh, I don’t know how to address a word to, but it was very moving for me.

Sarah: So if I’m hearing you right, the steps you took were reading your Bible, then getting into church, then getting connected in church and taking that class, which gave you a foundation and then just knowing you, it’s being continually connected.

Don: Yes, absolutely. And then I was fortunate and I call it blessed to be volunteering for the church at a Casting Crowns event. I got to be specific on that. And Zack Williams was playing and they just… There was a booth, it wasn’t our church but it was members of my church that invited me to help with the compassion booth and that was quite interesting to see all these people signing up, taking care of these kids in foreign countries and stuff. I was really inspired by that and that’s where I met your mother. She was one of the volunteers at the booth and we talked about this class at church and then she shared a little bit of journey coaching with me and introduced me to your dad, Jeff, and we became friends and connected and then built a relationship.

Don: And then I believe it was about May, after getting more information about what Journey had to offer and the ongoing relationship that I had with Jeff, decided to step into the Journey coaching thing, which was designed to be approximately seven weeks. And I ended up spending, with the coaches, 13 weeks and there they had put more emphasis on reading the Bible when you’re answering questions, and I think I said this in another podcast, that by their patients and grace, they inspired me to pick up that Bible and politely told me to be reading it every day.

Don: And it’s really been so great to do that but to be plugged into various, I guess you would call it, you’re a young person, the media network and the social media. I watch other ministry preachings and things. You’ll hear me refer to Andy Stanley, which I know there’s… He’s on some of the Journey websites I’ve seen as I cruised around and explained Journey coaching to people and send them there. I hear him say that, oh yeah, I see that they got Andy Stanley on their website and I’m like, yeah, he’s pretty cool. So that’s kind of how this all got to where it is today.

Sarah: Well, and I think one thing that’s interesting for our listeners to understand is that… So one of the core things that I took away from doing Journey coaching was working in your strengths. And so in the process of you working with the Journey coaches, you build a relationship with other believers and you looked at what your strengths are and what’s been really cool just in the last several months is that you’ve been working in your strengths and helping build up Journey coaching too.

Don: Yeah, I’ve enjoyed that because it’s just after going through it. Yeah, I have a huge passion for it because of how it affected me and I’m kind of a hard nut to crack. So yeah, I’ve been blessed with a few people at my church that are going through Journey as we speak. They want to reevaluate their life and their… And I say to enhance their spiritual growth and let’s face it, Sarah, you mean we can all enhance our spiritual growth. Do you know what I mean? Jesus wants us to work every day to build a relationship stronger with him. I mean that task and journey are never going to be over until…

Sarah: Well, and that’s the really cool thing about Journey coaching too, is anyone in there, whatever place they are in their walk, they can pick up Journey coaching and it can work for them with them. Because I did journey coaching and I’d been walking with Christ for 30 years when I went through Journey coaching too. I have my own struggles and stumbles and things like that. But it was impactful to me too. And we just came… We just started our coaching journey just in different places in our life. And yet it just works for so many people.

Don: It does. And I’m glad you got on board with it early. At your young age because that’s a regret. I’m not going to drag it around, but it’s just, I regret that I didn’t, what they would say, maybe see the light.

Sarah: But then again… Well, I’m going to interrupt you here because then the other thing I want our listeners to realize is that DOD is getting ready to start coaching himself. And even though you have those regrets, the thing is if you hadn’t, God works, what is it by mercy? He works mysteriously and he works all things for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. And the thing is that because of the story that you have, you’re able to show that grace of God to other people because he is a Redeemer and he is a savior and he is a protector and he can use you to help show the grace of God to other people who have had similar struggles. And if you hadn’t gone through that, then how would you minister to those people?

Don: Right. I know it’s just like he ministered to the 12. Look at those characters in the Bible.

Sarah: They were Don.

Don: They were Don and then a whole bunch of other people, they were Don’s and Sarah’s and everybody, every couple of life. But none of them were Christians per se. I mean, it was just… You can do anything you want. And I think what I really found out about this whole… And let me interrupt myself and say this because you were just getting ready to, I think. No, you don’t have to be a Christian to do Journey coaching.

Don: I want everybody that’s listening to be crystal clear on that. I’m not going to bang on your door or be your coach and go, if you don’t accept Christ, I’m not going to coach. No, that’s not what I’m saying. So yeah, this is for anybody. But I can tell you this, I’m just going to warn them. You’re not going to go through Journey coaching and not want to know more about Christianity. That is a given and you might as well be forewarned. And it’s fun. And when you go through this, if you are true with yourself and you’ve had these coaches as I did, I was blessed with two very great coaches that they’re coaching this guy that I brought through.

Don: You just have a sense of now I need to take the ball and run with it and go coach some people. You just mentioned that I’m going to start coaching and I am. You’ve even hung me out in a tree because I’m going to coach your son. So that’s a big challenge for Don and as a teenage kid and if you trust me with him, everybody listens to this butter too, huh?

Sarah: Well, and my son’s been through some things. So I actually asked you to coach him the day that I met you back at the beginning of August. You were sharing a little bit of your story during the leadership summit and my son was there attending the leadership summit and I just stopped you. I said… We had just met and I was like, wait for a second, I need you to stop talking right now and that you’re like, what? And I called my son over and I’m like, okay, you can start talking again now.

Don: Normally I don’t like getting interrupted but with you, I made an exception.

Sarah: But I needed you to stop talking so that I could go have you… I wanted you to finish your story in front of my son because my son is not my biological son and he’s got a story himself and I wanted him to hear your story too.

Don: He was really cool. I mean, we had a good conversation and we’ve talked to him, I’ve talked to him since then. He’s looking forward to it. So we’re just getting our timings all lined up and that’s going to take place. So I guess if we weren’t doing podcasts today, I could probably go coaching him. Right. Seriously, there’s a ton to my story and I don’t say that boastfully I’m just saying we can’t put it all on the air. It would take forever.

Sarah: No, we have… Yeah, we just have to have you keep on the… To keep coming on the podcast and for others to get to know you too. Okay. I want to end this podcast with one question for you. If there is anything that you would want to mention right now about the grace of God and you would want people to know about the grace of God, what would it be?

Don: There’s a lot of things I could say about that, but I will say this and you’ve again done your work and caught me off guard.

Sarah: Wait, I’m going to interrupt one thing and I’m going to mention to our listeners that the grace of God… Grace, because I have a story about the grace of God but I won’t share right now. But from that story, I know that grace means God’s unmerited or unearned favor for mankind.

Don: Yeah, that’s cool. I guess to summarize, God for me would be, he has given me more hope than I’ve ever had in my life and I’ll be 61 years old and I’ve never had this much hope nor faith or conviction of my own wrongdoings that I’m addressing on a daily basis.

Sarah: Well, let me jump in there. Conviction of your wrongdoings, but yet that sounds counterproductive. Like how can you have so much hope if you’re so convicted of your wrongdoings too?

Don: Because now I can admit all my faults instead of pretending that they didn’t exist. See, most of the things that went wrong in my life, in my marriages were Don’s fault. But Don was blaming other people. So when I used to be bad, I said that wrongful conviction. But it’s allowed me to have peace and get rid of it. I’m no longer carrying that stinky bag over my shoulder anymore because God’s given me the glorified grace. He’s forgiven all of us. You know that as well as I do. I’m preaching the choir, looking across the room talking to you, but we’re all forgiven. God has given us… We didn’t have to fight for the promised land. God has given us the promised land and we need to accept that and help lead other people into faith with Jesus Christ. I know that’s more than one sentence.

Sarah: I love it. I love it. So we’ve got to close out today, but I do want to just encourage everybody to keep listening to the Journey podcast because obviously Don has to continue being on the podcast with us.

Don: I look forward to it. I had a lot of fun with you, Sarah.

Sarah: Thank you for being on and we just hope that you feel encouraged and connected and determined to develop your strengths and live out your purpose and find us on journeycoaching.org and reach out to us on social media or email or we have a phone number on journeycoaching.org too, and keep listening, like and subscribe and we will talk to you later. Thank you very much. Bye.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Coaching Made Personal

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, we had the pleasure of having special guest, Don on the podcast. Don shares his journey to being an overcomer in a real and authentic way. From the purpose he found to the peace he is experiencing on this journey, their is encouragement for all.


Transcription of the Podcast


Don: I hope this journey never ends. I do not want this journey to end, and that’s one reason again that when you asked me to come and sit with you today and speak that I said, “Yeah, I would love to.” Because I want people to know what’s going on in the world and what they easily have access to with your podcast.

Your life, your journey, starts now.

Jeff: Hello everybody, this is Jeff. We’re here with another Journey Podcast and have a new good friend called Don and Don is here, Don Evans. And just glad to have him aboard. So welcome aboard to the podcast.

Don: Thank you Jeff. I appreciate the emphasis on good friend, because that means a lot to me personally because in my past I’ve not had a lot of good friends.

Jeff: Well it’s fun as Don and I have connected, I mean there’s some maybe personality traits or some wiring that maybe is close enough where I think we have had some good conversations and have connected and it’s been fun. Gosh, I think I met you what, about six months or so ago?

Don: Yeah.

Jeff: Something like that.

Don: Something like that.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and one of the things, and we’re just going to do one of the things-

Don: Well it’s going to be laid back too, right?

Jeff: It will be laid back and sort of the one of the things that is really cool about Don podcast, so one of the things that’s really cool is just his openness, his realness and just combined with overcoming some stuff in his life. So I guess you really can’t unpack real, but you can unpack the overcomer part. So maybe talk about that a little bit. Kind of, what’s been happening in your life.

Don: Yeah, I would love to do that. But for your listeners, I just want to say this, we’re going to get something cleared up right away. Jeff uses the term unpack a lot. So right now we’re going to unpack a lot of stuff, because to be perfectly honest with everybody listening, when Jeff first met me, it was about a month or two later, he thought that I was something that I wasn’t, because of the way I carried myself and the way I spoke in public and acted. But truth be known, I have a good heart and I’m a good person, but I was a really odd person that nowadays by a lot of people is called a pretend-aholic.

Jeff: Well, can I just interrupt you one-

Don: Sure.

Jeff: … second here, because yeah, my first impression of Don was, well now you can tell by his voice, the deep voice and very, very authoritative-

Don: You have to work on it a little bit buddy.

Jeff: But I talked to him for five minutes. I’m like, “Wow, this guy’s like, maybe he could be a million … He could be like a multimillionaire. He just controls the room in the way he presents himself.” So, anyway.

Don: Oh, I appreciate that. But yeah, it’s just funny how we got started and my first impression to you was something that I wasn’t. I’ve struggled all my life with a lot of alcohol addictions and depression from that, just had a rough childhood. I don’t harbor any things like that. I don’t carry that with me. But see, there again, that’s where that word comes in, pretend-aholic. Because it really does bother even a rough guy like me. Bounced in bars. I’ve sang music in country bars. I’ve even danced on bars before. And no, I don’t know if the crowd thought I did pretty well, but that didn’t matter. It’s pointless. I just say that to be somewhat humorous because-

Jeff: I’ve now got that movie Coyote Ugly in my head.

Don: Yeah right. Well it was close to that. Some people said it was ugly, but the pictures I think were destroyed. But I just, I want to be honest with you Jeff, and let your listeners know that a rough character like me, and honestly I was, and I still am to a degree. I’m a big guy. I’m six foot, 250 pounds and God blessed me with this some sort of weird voice that everybody seems to like. So when I say that only to enhance the fact that please listen to what I have to say for the sole purpose of, if this thing can change me. This coaching thing has done so much for me that I just literally Jeff, I want the whole world to know about it. And I just, it so dramatically changes how I have viewed things on a day-to-day basis now.

Don: It’s just overwhelming to me that now I have a sense of more purpose and reasoning to just let people know that no matter where you’re at in life, I told you I was an alcoholic, but maybe you struggle with other issues, whoever you are that’s listing. And you don’t have to have problems to do this. I just simply want to clarify the fact that somebody that’s been through as much stuff as I have to come out on the other side and know that there’s hope for a better life, and I don’t have to keep spinning the little hamster wheel anymore.

Jeff: Well, that’s a good point because you have had life experience, been around the block a few times.

Don: Oh yeah.

Jeff: Been through some different connection points or programs or whatever it might be. What was the thing, if you had to core it down to like that one thing, what was the thing about coaching, about Journey Coaching that really was helpful?

Don: Oh that’s a really easy one now that you jogged my memory on that one. It was the day that I was going through my journaling that I’d written down the questions that I’d answered for that Wednesday meeting. We met every Wednesday, I don’t remember the other questions. There were boxes to check and there was only one empty box that I could not check to be honest. And that question I’ll never forget. It was, do you spend time daily reading and studying your Bible? And I was unable to check that box, even though I was always kind of a heathen, I’m at least honest about stuff like that.

Don: And I went into to this coaching thing to be honest and get my life straightened out and my coach immediately said, “We’d have to do something about that.” And we did. And that was just back in June Jeff, that was in the middle of June. And so my coach asked me very politely when I came back the following Wednesday, he said, “I want to know what chapter, what book you read in the Bible, and how much you read of it. And I’m going to encourage you that you do that starting today, every single day of your life.”

Don: And you know, I’m not a good reader, so I have a little audio that I follow along with my Bible, but anybody that does know things about the Bible, oh man, I’m telling you what. Once I cruised through the gospels as the truckers, I’ll say it for y’all truckers listing out there, I’m hammered down now, I’m just hammered down. So yeah, it’s been fun to dive into stuff like that and learn things that I just put aside.

Jeff: Right, right. Well, and I just want to throw it out there too. When you talk about reading your Bible, a lot of people listening may not have ever picked up a Bible before. And I think part of the coaching process, that’s good. I mean, if you just pick up a … I encourage everybody, pick up a Bible if you’ve never looked at one before. But it’s really helpful to have somebody alongside you that can help guide you through and like where to start.

Don: Absolutely.

Jeff: And you can bounce different ideas back and forth and that can be a really, really helpful thing is just not only have the Bible but that person that you can have alongside you through that whole thing, so.

Don: And that’s what my coach did for me. He was there, he knew the Bible very well and he was a reader of the Bible every day and still is. So he was able to share some things with me and places to start. And his theory was, just start with the gospels. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. A lot of information there because they not only were followers of Jesus but let’s … Now that I know this, that I can speak in this with authority, they hung out with Jesus. They followed him around. They did not only hear it, they saw it to validate it and once I got, even Luke was my most interesting chapter because this guy was like an Einstein back in ancient times. He was that brilliant of a man, but he just, he made all these scriptures and wrote all this stuff down and I’m just now a guy that’s on fire for knowledge and I don’t spend any time on Netflix or television or anything.

Don: I may be honest with people are going to laugh at me out there. You know, this guy’s addicted to YouTube. Now he was an alcoholic, but now he’s on YouTube all the time. Yes sir. Yes ma’am, I am. Because you know what, there’s a lot of knowledge there and there’s a lot of very smart people on there. If you want to move your life forward you doesn’t need to hook up with Don, I’ll tell you which places to go and what you need to listen to that will change your life. In a matter of a day you’ll go, “Wow, I’m inspired and I want to do something.” So please pay attention because the questions are going to get easier, I promise.

Jeff: Well, in that whole overcomer piece, and just as we’re wrapping this up, along with the Bible, along with … And you want to talk about your Bible, Matthew, Mark and so forth and hanging out with Jesus, that’s original coaching there, right?

Don: Yeah it is.

Jeff: The one on one, they were there. So it’s sort of that original coaching.

Don: Yeah, I call them my guys, Gary and Tom were there, and they would tell you about it.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s taking that same concept and having people in your life, real one on one opening up and that’s a game changer.

Don: Well, it is. And see, I’m envious now of my coaches for what they did for me. I envy those two gentlemen that took, we actually spent 13 weeks doing it. And I can tell you this honestly Jeff, maybe I haven’t, that about week five we weren’t getting anyways close to getting to the end of the book. We were about the third chapter still. And I questioned them. I’m like, “Guys, I know you’re donating your time,” because that’s the way the program works. And I said, “I just feel guilty that I’m not going fast enough.” And you know, it’s really rewarding when two guys in their 70s, I don’t know their age, I shouldn’t be telling it, y’all ain’t going to know them anyway.

Jeff: They’re actually 40 years old, but they look that old. Just kidding.

Don: I’ve got them hid in a closet, they’re mine. But when they said to me Jeff, this is really, really sunk deep into me that day. When those two simultaneously looked at each other and then looked back to me, they said, “Don, we have learned as much from you in three weeks, probably more than you’ve learned from us. We don’t care if it takes 90 days to do this because you inspire us to make us want to continue to do this.”

Don: And that really took me back. I’m like, “These two old guys are so much more lifestyle improved than I am.” So see, I was judging myself when in turn they’re there, learning from me. So that’s why, when you asked me if I’d want to come and sit and visit with you a little bit on this thing today, I’m like, “Yeah, absolutely. Because it needs to be heard what things are available to people.”

Jeff: Yeah, and you hit on a key point about the whole concept of coaching. I mean, it’s not one person’s like the mentor expert-

Don: No.

Jeff: … and the other person’s the person that doesn’t know anything. I mean, it’s equal. We’re all on this life’s journey together and if we can come alongside each other and help each other and grow together, how sweet is that? So …

Don: Right man, I’ll tell you if candidly, this just entered my little pointed brain. I hope this journey never ends. I do not want this journey to end. And that’s one reason again, that when you asked me to come and sit with you today and speak, that I said, “Yeah, I would love to.” Because I want people to know what’s going on in the world and what they easily have access to with your podcast. You can go to these and listen to these and then make your own informed decision. If you think that’s something that’s going to fit in your life, it doesn’t take very much time, you know?

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s very cool. Well, thanks for listening. We’ll I’m sure here more of a Don in coming podcasts. See, he can talk a lot clearer than I can.

Don: You need not worry about that, see. You just think about yourself, then you get overwhelmed. Let me close by saying that also. Let me add just a little more to that. Again, I mentioned that a little bit earlier, but for your listeners out there, it’s immaterial to any of us what you think you are in public. It’s what you think about yourself and how much self-motivation you want to allow yourself to have to make life better and easier so that … And you know, we hear about peace in the Bible a lot. For the first time of my life since I got out of this in July and we’re just here in the first part of the middle of September.

Don: My life is 180 degrees different than it was. So anybody that thinks, “Not really sure what I heard here today. I don’t know if I want to listen to that again.” God bless you man. But there’s plenty more to come and make your own informed decision and I just hope that you reach out and at least listen to some more of what they offer to you, because it’s good stuff. Thank you so much for having me here today, Jeff.

Jeff: You bet ye, you bet ye, very fine. So yeah, just on your own journey. You’re certainly welcome to listen to more of these podcasts, but at some point just take a step, a small step and reach out, journeycoaching.org. There’s ways to connect with not only the sort of the material we have, the Seven Session Coaching Process, but also to help you find a coach that can just get you started to move forward. And so yeah, glad to everybody with us today and till next time. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Your life, your journey, starts now.