Starting the Journey

Commonly Asked Questions

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode Sarah, Terry and Jeff answer commonly asked questions from what is coaching to the difference between coaching and counseling.


Transcription of Podcast


Transcription Coming

Coaching Is Friendship That Facilitates Growth

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, Lianne, Terry and Sarah talk about the difference between a coaching friendship and a traditional friendship. They explain how a coaching friendship is structured in nature with intentional goals in mind whereas a traditional friendship is more spontaneous.


Transcription of Podcast


Sarah: Welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome back to the Journey podcast. I’m Sarah and I’m here with Terry and Lianne, I’m going to let you introduce this podcast.

Your life, your journey, starts now.

Lianne: So today we have an interesting topic. Journey is all about relationships, and Journey is also about an intentional relationship between a coach and someone else. And so I guess the question would be, what is the difference between a coaching relationship and a friendship relationship?

Terry: I think both of them are really important. They’re both… It’s very important that we have friendship-friendships, friendship kind of relationships. But I think it’s also important at times in our life especially, to have coaching type relationships.

Terry: The difference as I see it is, that a coaching relationship is a little bit more formal. It’s not like a mentoring relationship where there’s a person on the other side of the relationship that’s an expert and there’s kind of a change in the balance of power and that sort of thing. A coaching relationship is more… It’s kind of like an intentional friendship. I think it is something that helps people… There’s an anticipation of some kind of growth versus just two people talking to just have a friendship.

Lianne: Well I think one thing you could say for sure is that the Journey coaching is a structured kind of a situation. So you are having a pretty good quality conversation through it because it is structured and it’s kind of drawing out. Whereas a lot of times in friendship you’re just kind of… Things are happening spontaneously so it has a little bit different purpose and that may be one of the big differences.

Terry: Sure. I think when you talk about structure, I think the goals… Most of the time a coaching relationship has some kind of goals involved. You know, you’re setting the goal of learning more about each other, or you’re setting the goal… In Journey one of the first goals we set is to hear each other’s story or to understand the story that the person is coming in with. So much of what we find out about our own strengths and our own weaknesses and even our own worldview comes from the story our life has made… It’s kind of like each life is a book and the narrative or the story that goes along with what’s gotten us to this place. In coaching, there’s a goal to that, we’re not just telling the story. Our goal is to try to find something out about us that we may not have known before.

Sarah: And with Lianne being my coach, I think that what’s been really… I think what I would say about it being different between friendship and just general coaching is I have a fairly easy time making friends, but I feel like the word that I would describe the coaching situation with Lianne was safe. I felt safe in my relationship with Lianne. It’s kind of like I’m talking behind her back and she’s right here.

Lianne: I’m listening.

Terry: What was it about that relationship with Lianne as your coach that made you feel safe?

Sarah: Well, she was transparent with me. I think she was very nervous because… Was I one of the first people that you… You didn’t feel like… It almost is almost like you didn’t feel equipped to do it.

Lianne: Yeah, I think you’re right. I think I felt like I didn’t know how to do it, but as we went through it, I think I might have called Terry with a question about just one kind of bad habit I felt like I had, which is trying to make people feel like we all have these problems or whatever, you know, I wanted to do that, but that wasn’t really my role. My role was to listen and let you talk. So I think-

Sarah: Well and I really appreciate it because you always seemed embarrassed when you would tell me, “I don’t feel equipped to do this.” It was almost like you were like, “I’m not ready to do this and I don’t know if I’m the best person.” And I was like, “No, I really… I’m happy with this” and everything like that.

Sarah: I think that that transparency really was huge and helpful. And I don’t know if I’d say maybe it’s just my personality, but I think that that’s just life. On one of our other podcasts, we talk about building real relationships and you were really honest and real with me that this is out of my comfort zone and that transparency helped me be more transparent with you.

Sarah: I don’t really have that hard of a time being transparent with people. It made me trust you more because I felt like you would say what you really thought and then I didn’t feel like, “Well what is Lianne really thinking?” because I knew you would… I mean I feel like you would say it, and therefore I felt safe.

Terry: Well and I think that what you bring up, both of you brought up, is really an important piece that we may need to do another podcast on that specific thing of, you know, what if somebody feels like they might want to be a coach but they don’t really know if they’ve got what it takes or they don’t really feel equipped. We can have a whole other conversation or probably several conversations on answering that question.

Terry: I think it’s really neat that the very thing that you thought probably wasn’t going to make you a good coach was the very thing that helped Sarah feels safe in her role, in her relationship with you.

Lianne: Yeah.

Sarah: And then with the friendship, because it’s been a year now and so Lianne walks in here to podcast, we haven’t really talked very much in the last month or two since really around Christmas time or whatever. I’m just excited to see you again and you walk in and I’m like, “Lianne!” You know, and when you see me you’re like, “Hwy, Sarah!” and I just, I really appreciate that relationship. And the funny thing, what’s really cool about this, regarding the friendship thing, is I knew you for several years because you’re good friends with my parents, and they would always rave about you.

Sarah: It’s no secret that Terry Carlson is my mom and then my dad, Jeff Carlson is not recording with us right now, but he’s here in the room and he’s doing a little dance or whatever.

Sarah: So yeah, but they would rave about you. And it wasn’t until we had that relationship that we started building that relationship… I mean it was just… The relationship that you and I have would not exist if it were not for Journey coaching.

Terry: Well I think you’re kind of blurring the lines. Our topic today is what’s the difference? You’re kind of blurring the line between the two, but I think that’s a really good example of how coaching can become a friendship. You know, we’re not talking about counseling relationship where you have to maintain professional boundaries and all that stuff. Coaching is a much more peer-to-peer kind of a situation. I think it’s beautiful that you and Lianne have built a friendship out of the coaching relationship.

Lianne: I think that’s kind of really an important thing to emphasize, is that working with somebody with the coaching relationship. It’s reassuring to know that you are not expected to be the expert in the room as the coach and that the other person is just as much. It’s, it is very much an even relationship. That is where with even friendships aren’t always that way. So it’s designed specifically to be fairly even, reciprocal kind of a-

Sarah: I would not have had a great, I really don’t think I would have had as good of an experience with Journey if Lianne came across as like a professional.

Terry: Right. I think that’s a good point.

Sarah: Well, what were you going to say though?

Terry: Well, I think the coaches… But the analogy that I was going to use is, and we use the word Journey to describe this type of coaching for a reason.

Terry: It’s like somebody going along… it’s almost like Lianne has been, she took a journey to California and she came back and she said, “Hey Sarah, do you want to go to California? I’ve been there, let me show you how.”

Lianne: Yeah, exactly.

Sarah: Yeah.

Terry: And it’s not like she’s an expert on California, but at the same time she’s been down the road a little bit. She went through the coaching herself first.

Lianne: So one of the big important distinctions between just a casual friendship and a coaching relationship is the intentionality.

Sarah: Absolutely. I think that’s a really good way to describe it.

Lianne: And I actually felt like that was actually a surprising benefit for me because had I not had that intentional… I guess you can kind of get into friendships where you kind of chatter, you talk about things and that person reminds you of something else you were going to talk about and they have this interesting story. I feel like the intentionality kind of gave me a purpose, had me slow down and then to listen and I just felt like it just is a really high quality conversation that way, don’t you Sarah?

Sarah: I agree. And also another way I would describe this is kind of like the world quieted down for… I knew that we would have that one-on-one time. We went to a lot of coffee shops and restaurants or we’d be at my office where that time was set aside. You were very gracious that you came towards me because we live probably 45 minutes away, 30 minutes away from each other. Time just quieted down and it was dedicated time to just spend time together, think, and process things that have happened in my life, that happened in your life. Moving forward on things, working in our strengths instead of trying to fix all of our weaknesses but working in our strengths and stuff. It was just a really neat time.

Terry: Well, and I think the intentionality is really important because it’s where the intentionality comes in is kind of the goals. I’m not talking about really strict rigid goals, but the goal of coaching is to really facilitate or to encourage growth. If you think about it, I mean you really had, you had some insights into your own leadership skills and stuff by when you went through coaching.

Sarah: Yeah, and that was amazing too because I fought against doing coaching. My parents, you know… My mom’s the one who wrote Journey coaching with Mike. My dad’s the one that’s been pushing this and I thought, “I don’t need to do this. This is just how I was raised.” But I did, even as myself who pushed back against doing it for years, I still learned a lot. I still built a really great relationship with Lianne and it really was very worthwhile, especially as I was going through a lot of changes in my life last year at the same time too. So yeah, it was really good.

Terry: So I think facilitating growth is probably one of the biggest benefits of going through coaching versus just having a friendship.

Sarah: Yeah. And as someone who’s been on a growth, what would you say? Growth mindset, growth projectory, for years. I mean my mom who wrote the book has raised me this way, and it still helped push me forward. I think you never stop moving forward, right? I mean isn’t that the thing, as soon as you stop and you stand in one place, you’re going to go backwards instead of, you know.

Terry: Well, and I think you can even… I think there’s even a benefit. We haven’t actually had anybody to do this yet because Journey isn’t that old of a process. But I think it would be a benefit to maybe 5, 10, 20 years later going through the process again and just seeing how has my story changed, how has my journey changed? What do I want to set as new goals for growth in the future?

Sarah: That’s even long. I would say every year. I mean it’s been a year since I went through it and I’m kind of like, well I mean maybe I should take someone else through it because you kind of go through it at the same time together again. I probably should take someone through it now. I think it’s just… My dad’s over here nodding up and down really heavily or whatever. So-

Terry: One thing we know for sure is that each coaching relationship between a couple people, two couples, whatever, is going to be unique and it’s going to all be dependent on their needs and where they’re at. And so I think-

Sarah: And different personalities too.

Terry: …different personalities, combinations, chemistry, what part of the country are you from probably changes it even, so I would say that the differences… the intentionality we’ve talked about, we’ve talked about the growth. Also, there’s no reason they have to be mutually exclusive because you do develop a pretty good friendship once you realize the things you have in common. You develop a good friendship with the people you coach, that’s a fairly strong possibility.

Sarah: So we should probably wrap up this podcast. Thanks for listening in. Please like and subscribe. You can find us at journeycoaching.org you can also find us on Facebook and Instagram, Spotify, iTunes, and yeah, reach out to us. Give us a holler and tell us your thoughts. Maybe we’ll include your questions on another podcast.

Terry: That’s a great idea.

Sarah: Yeah in the future. So yeah, thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you later, bye.

Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

Your life, your journey, starts now.

The Birth Of A New Concept From An Old Idea

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode Jeff and Sarah explore the topic of what coaching is all about. In this episode they discuss how they got to this point of developing the coaching, what it is and why it’s important.


Risking New Relationships

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode Sarah, Terry and Lianne encourage each individual to step out and risk building new relationships.


Transcription of Podcast


Sarah: Welcome back to the Journey Podcast. I’m Sarah Banowetz, and I’m here with Lianne Westcott and Terry Carlson and today our topic is risking new relationships.

(singing)

Sarah: This is a neat topic.

Lianne: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of possibility in that. People stepping out, risking new relationships. It seems like we can get stuck in wanting relationships where people are kind of like us and they think the same things as us. Sometimes when we spend a little bit longer with people, we find out we have a lot in common with them. It’s pretty awesome. At first you think, “Well, I don’t have that much in common,” but if you really take time, talk to somebody, learn about them, you can find that you have a lot of things in common and that’s how friendships are made.

Sarah: So why is it that… I’m an extrovert, so I have a hard time understanding this, so maybe you guys can give a little insight to me. Why is it that new relationships are risky?

Terry: I think there’s a lot of fear. I think there’s a lot of fear that they anticipate that the other person’s maybe not going to accept them, that they may not say things right, they may put their foot in the mouth, that sort of thing. At least that’s what I’ve heard at times is the fear.

Lianne: Well, we all have a comfort zone and some people, their comfort zone is in trying new things all the time. They want to go out and have adventures. Other people, their comfort zone is in a little bit of fear of the unknown. What if I come across to somebody else a certain way? What if they aren’t a type of person I really want to have a longterm relationship with? There’s just such a variety in what people are comfortable with.

Sarah: Yeah, that makes sense.

Terry: Well, I think that sometimes too, people come out of… A lot of our learning how to be social and learning how to be in relationship comes from our junior high or middle school and high school ages. And the problem is there’s a lot of cliques in that age and there’s a lot of different kind of things that go on that make it difficult to reach out and get new friends, make new friends. And then once we leave high school, it’s even harder because we don’t have that pool of peers to kind of draw on. And I think we just get busy in our lives, and so busyness can tend to be part of it. We may know a lot of people we work with, we may know a lot of people in college or whatever environment we’re in, but as far as just sitting down and having those one-on-one relationships or small group relationships with each other, it’s difficult.

Sarah: Yeah.

Lianne: I think one way to make relationships a little bit easier is to wade into them. So people talk about small talk. Can you get to know people through small talk? I think absolutely. Actually, that’s something we all could work on is maybe our skills of just being able to have a good conversation with somebody, But yet you don’t have to go to the TMI thing. You don’t have to really disclose a lot about yourself to get to know people better. I think just kind of walking down that path with somebody and keep… Start with the small talk, find out about them, and then just keep going down the path and get to know them a little bit deeper as you build trust and relationship. There can be a lot of reward to that.

Sarah: Do you guys have any insight into how to transition from small talk to slightly less small talk, like slightly deeper conversations, especially for someone who it doesn’t come naturally to?

Terry: I think some of it is just gradually getting to that place where you share a little bit of yourself at a time. Not necessarily going all the way deep, but saying, adding if you think this person might be somebody that you’d like to spend more time with, you can kind of ask them that, “Hey, do you want to have a cup of coffee? Do you want to… ” If the relationship is clicking, if you guys are having some things to talk about then, it just will naturally go deeper in a lot of ways. Some people end up going too fast, too deep, and then they get hurt. “Well, I gave somebody all this information about myself and then that person went and blabbed it all over.” That kind of thing tends to make people pull back and not trust people again. So giving little bits of information at a time and making sure the person’s trustworthy before you tell them a little bit deeper for a part of yourself.

Sarah: Well, and along that point, managing expectations too, because if you go too fast and too deep too fast, you may think that you know the other… Managing expectations, like you guys might end up hitting it off really well from a friendship level, but if you come on too strongly and stuff, then sometimes you just-

Terry: Scare them away.

Sarah: Scare them away or scare yourself, too, because you think that they’re someone else and you’re making that up in your mind that this is who this person is, and they’re really not that person. Then it could have been a great friendship, but it’s ruined because you had all these ideas of who they are and that’s not who they were. So instead ask a lot of questions and find out who this person is and what makes them tick and-

Lianne: Oh, I think that’s a great point because listening is probably the harder thing for people to do. We can talk a lot easier than we can listen. So maybe just slowing down, listening to people, building up conversation skills, how to ask good questions, and then see where it goes from there.

Sarah: I have had a lot of luck in asking questions when I’m meeting new people. I’m so curious about people and I want to know their backstory and everything. I want to know all about them, what makes them tick and stuff. Not because I’m… I don’t know, that’s just who I am. I think it’s the extrovert in me. And so I’m answering the question I asked earlier is how do you build those relationships? I think people do need to listen a lot and ask a lot of questions. Because then that’s where you can find out more about that person, make less assumptions about them, find out more information. And people do like to talk about themselves, too. I’ve had good luck with building friendships. My sister said I can make friends inside of a paper bag, and I think it’s just because I ask a lot of questions.

Lianne: Yeah, and I think that’s really hitting on maybe the focus is the reward. So the risk in relationships is that maybe concentrate more on the reward than the risk and just see what happens.

Sarah: So what would the reward be?

Lianne: Connection with people, getting to know more people, broadening your horizons, having just some interesting interactions and things to do.

Terry: Well, and I think connection. This again goes back to the mental health standpoint. When we connect with other people and we have these positive relationships, we have a better mental health picture. They’re looking, statistics are showing now that people who are not connected have a lot more depression and anxiety and other issues. So taking that risk to be connected with other people is a healthy thing.

Sarah: It is very healthy. Because I have a company and one thing that I had been looking into is this idea of, and we’re doing this like even with Journey, is that we can be connected to people via technology like Zoom and all of our Google products and stuff like this. So we don’t have to meet with people face-to-face in order to have working relationships with them. This has been a turning point in our world, not even just in our country, but in our world where a lot of people are working away from offices, and they’re working from their homes and they’re working from coffee shops and they’re traveling, which is exciting and they get to travel and meet new people, too. But there’s also a lot of people who are just working from home. 20 years ago you’d get those connections with at least your coworkers and such, and now your coworkers are spread out literally across the world.

Lianne: I was going to say the reward, if you can just get it down to just a little snapshot, to me would be, I remember when I was much younger and I was somewhere sitting and waiting in a mall or somewhere, and an older woman sat down and she just had some kind of a statement like she just isn’t happy now that she’s old. She just reminded me a lot of my grandma who had passed away, and I just wasn’t much of a conversationalist. So I thought of it internally how it would be really great to reach out and have a good conversation with her, but it was a little bit harder.

Lianne: So I think just as we reach out to each other, we’re maybe in a less connected world than we used to be. I don’t know if that’s true, but if we reach out to others, we can just help one person at a time or ourselves to be a little bit less lonely.

Sarah: What happened in that situation? Did you end up talking to her?

Lianne: It just kind of came and went, but learned, I’ve-

Sarah: So now you have-

Lianne: … I kept that with me and learned a lot from it.

Sarah: So now you’re keeping your… You have your eye out for that kind of situation now.

Lianne: Yeah, and now that I’ve been around a while, I’m a much better conversationalist so I could probably jump on that opportunity a little bit quicker than in the old days.

Sarah: That’s awesome.

Terry: Well, we’re in a society now that’s really technologically connected. When you think about how many Facebook friends most people have and connections on LinkedIn, and all of the other things, you know, social media, but yet we’re more and more and more disconnected from others individually in a personal sort of way.

Sarah: Yeah, and that’s deeper. That’s what I was trying to get at, the deeper sense, those close relationships where you’re really getting to know people really well and who, if there is a crisis moment, you can call on those people.

Terry: Well, I think the answer isn’t to get rid of the technology necessarily, but to find a balance between I can be technologically connected to people, but I can also be socially and personally connected to some.

Sarah: Because the technology that we have right now can aid in person interactions, even if it doesn’t have to, I mean sometimes spouses are overseas and stuff like that, but you can still have deep connections even through technology. It’s just making that intentional effort of having those deep conversations and opening yourself up to real relationships with people where they see who you really are.

Lianne: So I guess to wrap it up, we’ll say, yes, take risks in relationships.

Terry: The answer is yes.

Sarah: And to ask questions to help and just put yourself out there to get to that point where you can do that. So you’ve been listening to the Journey Coaching Podcast. We can be found on journeycoaching.org, also on Facebook, Instagram. Reach out to us, make sure you like and subscribe for more information. We’re all about creating connection with people and helping to facilitate that. So make sure you tune in and thanks for listening. Bye.

Terry: Bye.

Announcer: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time, and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.

(singing)

How Did Journey Coaching Start?

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode Terry, Mike and Sarah explain how Journey Coaching started. It all started with the thought of what the historical church did to help people grow and how do we continue to do that today?

Transcription of Podcast

Sarah: Well, welcome back to Journey Podcast. We’re back with Mike and Terry and today we’re going to talk about how journey coaching started.

Music: Your life, your journey starts now.

Sarah: So Terry is an RN and has worked in church ministry and in business leadership. She’s also a licensed counselor. Mike is a consultant for both large and small churches and he has a master’s and PhD in education and is in the middle of working on his dissertation. Is that correct, Mike?

Mike: That’s correct, although it’s on hold at the moment, but so I’m kind of working.

Sarah: That stuff is hard stuff though.

Mike: Yes it is.

Sarah: I have a professor friend and that, yeah.

Mike: Yes.

Sarah: Okay, so these two, Mike and Terry, they are the writers of Journey Coaching, and so I just wanted ask you guys how did Journey come about? What is the story with this journey coaching?

Mike: Well, prior to, and we’ll talk about Jeff and you’ll meet him and in a podcast to come.

Sarah: Yes.

Mike: Jeff is Sarah’s dad and Terry’s husband. Prior to meeting Jeff, my dissertation work is on the subject of what happened historically in the church to help people grow. What did pastors do? What did the leaders of churches do to help their congregations mature, grow, whatever way that you think about that, and how do we do that today? Comparing and contrasting the two.

Mike: Certainly what I saw in history was a metaphor that in the church would be described as shepherding, and S everybody probably sees a shepherd with the staff on a hill and there’s a bunch of animals down there, and that actually, if I had more time to talk about it, is actually a role that a leader would take, and did take in a church that was very much come alongside, know their names and really help them individually.

Mike: That’s in the church what pastors did historically, and then today what do they do, and today’s church organization runs a little bit more like lots of programs to help people so that pastors don’t necessarily know everybody in their congregation, but they ensure that they bring people in to run programs to help serve them. It’s that distinction that I asked not saying which is right or which is wrong, but what are the pros and cons? Why was it done this way in the past and why is it done this way in the future? And a whole podcast could be spent on that, but to cut to the chase, it was a sense of what happened in the past that’s lost in the future needs to be recovered.

Mike: And the way that we’ve been thinking about it here is coaching. But when I think of shepherding and coaching, there are a lot of similarities, and I think what we mean by coaching is with one person coming alongside another person and helping them grow, that’s what pastors did historically. So I moved into this whole experience with that kind of sense of we need to recover that in the church.

Terry: I think shepherding is a good term to use alongside with coaching.

Mike: Yeah.

Terry: It’s a good picture.

Mike: Yeah. Terry and I will talk more about the particulars of coaching in podcasts that come, but anyway, with that kind of angst in me and having been a pastor for almost 30 years, so I’ve lived this and I’ve been the one who runs programs, and I’ve had the privilege of walking beside people as well, and having experienced that both. So I was working at the leadership summit one year coming out of all of my sense of what I’d been studying and my doctoral degree and that I felt like there was a missing piece in the church, and I was working at a large leadership summit. That’s where I was. I was working at a booth there and Jeff walked up to me, and we started a conversation and he had been feeling a similar sense of challenge with some things that were missing in the church and that scene growth.

Mike: So that spawned a relationship around wanting to do something about it, and he was married to Terry. I eventually get to meet her, and then the three of us really resonated with there’s a piece of this missing that we really feel like we need to do something about. So I think I’ll hand it over to Terry because she entered into this story along that road and her husband dragged her along to meet this crazy Mike guy.

Terry: I remember the first time sat around a table and we talked and it was just that, you know, sometimes you can just tell when things are clicking and there’s just, you could just tell that even though we came from different kinds of backgrounds, I came from a nursing background and yet our dream and our visions were all a lot about the same.

Mike: Yes.

Terry: And it was so much fun to talk with somebody else. And the more you do that, the more you talk with somebody who really is kind of speaking the same language and it’s like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. It was exciting.

Mike: It was exciting.

Terry: From my background, I come from a nursing background and I still am a nurse even though I don’t practice nursing. I went back and got my master’s degree in counseling and so I’ve got those two pieces together.

Terry: My focus has been, my passion has been on helping people be healthy. If you think of the same thing, that Mike was saying he wants to see people grow. I wanted to see people grow in a healthy sort of way. When I’m talking to clients or when I’m coaching or when I’m talking to other people, I kind of picture, if you can imagine a picture where there would be four circles and the circles would all kind of intersect. There’s the psychological part of the thinking with the cognition, what are we thinking about and how is our thinking affecting our health and our growth? There’s the social aspect. How is my relationship with other people, am I connected? Am I not connected? There’s the emotional part of it, we are emotional beings.

Terry: We have a lot of thinking, and I know our thoughts influence our feelings in a lot of ways. And how do I feel about something? That’s where our passions come in. We’re not just robots. We have this emotion that drives us. And then the last one is a spiritual thing. Even every one of those circles represents one of those things. And they all intersect into who we are in the middle. Even if you’re not a spiritual person or you don’t consider yourself a spiritual person, you still have to ask yourself the questions who am I, where am I here? How did I get here? Where am I, what’s my purpose in life? I mean, those are all really spiritual kind of questions.

Mike: Yeah.

Terry: So for me that was the passion is helping people grow in those ways.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. And then the three of us really shared that passion around what could we do to make a difference in the world of the church.

Terry: Right.

Speaker 3: We were all coming from that similar passion but from different backgrounds. And it was neat how God brought that together. And then we wondered what’s next, and then what’s next started evolving into some of the things that we’ve developed all together today, the curriculum and those pieces are evolving, and the whole concept of how to get people in a place where they’re in a relationship with another person to move forward. And we started brainstorming and thinking about what does that look like? What kind of things would they talk about?

Terry: It started to take shape and in the shape that it took, our conversations came around and we talked about how many sessions would you have for an initial coaching relationship. We decided 12 was too may, five was too few. We centered on seven or eight, and ultimately we came up with a seven session initial coaching process. The sessions are outlined, but they’re definitely not, it’s not rigid. There’s a lot of questions in this, there’s a workbook. The workbook just kind of guides people through the different questions about helping people to formulate and tell their story, and then talking about pulling their strengths out of their story. What are my strengths? We’ll talk about strengths, or we have talked about strengths in other podcasts.

Terry: I’m sure we’ll talk about them again. We also spend a time working on our weaknesses, or we call them growth areas. Some of our weaknesses, our growth areas. Some of them aren’t. Some of them, we kind of divide our weaknesses into two parts. What can we grow? What can we manage to change? I don’t like this about myself, how can I grow in that area? Other weaknesses or things we can’t overcome. I have asthma. That is a weakness in some ways. There are times when I just can’t do the things I want to do because my physical health isn’t good. I can improve it as much as possible, but that’s a weakness. How do we … So when we talk about weaknesses, are we talking about what can I change and how can I change them or do I need to accept and move on?

Terry: Do I need to reorganize my life based on the things I can do, not the things I can’t do.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Terry: We get into direction, what direction do you want to go? What do you use as a roadmap in your life? We also talk about world view. How does that play into how I see the roadmap. Some people use the Bible as a road map. Some people use other things as a roadmap. Ultimately we come to the end of the seven weeks with helping people formulate some kind of a plan for their future, what am I going to change? Come down with one or up to two or three things that they want, the most important, two or three things they want to work on. Then the last session is a followup. The person comes back to us after we’ve been, they’ve had some time to try reaching out and doing some of the action steps to their goals.

Terry: How did that go? We don’t criticize if it didn’t go well, we just look at it as okay, what can we learn from what didn’t go well? You said you wanted to spend more time with doing dates with your husband or your wife. How did that go? Did you actually get a chance to do those things? What got in the way? And so we’re just really there to help people grow in the way that maybe they, or maybe God is moving them in. And so that’s how the workbook came about. We also put together a leaders guide. So when somebody decides they want to be a coach, we’ve got a real easy to read coach’s guide, and it talks about things, characteristics like how do you, what is listening skills, listening skills are out there? How do you build relationships?

Speaker 3: Yeah. And underneath all of it is the thing that resonates with all of us. It’s two human beings getting together, getting to know each other, one in particular serving another to help them move forward. And all of that’s incredibly important, but those are tools that we’ve created to help the relationship. And that’s the missing piece that we’re all striving to make a difference in, to try to help the church and the world move forward. People need somebody walking beside them, helping them move forward. And that’s really journey. Walking to people, walking on a journey together, one coaching and helping the other.

Sarah: Well, that’s what is so different about the programs.

Terry: Well you talk about churches, and there’s so many different kinds of churches out there. One of the things that we were very careful to do as we were sitting around the tables talking and trying to formulate this was to make sure that it was more, it wasn’t a denominational thing. We didn’t want it to be this denomination or that denomination. We wanted it to be something that would reach people wherever they were at.

Mike: Yeah.

Sarah: Let’s wrap up for today, and you guys introduced a lot of different things. I have a lot of questions, but we can dive into those on future podcasts, so thank you Mike. Thank you Terry.

Mike: Thanks.

Sarah: And we’ll talk to you guys later. Bye.

Terry: Bye.

Mike: Bye.

Speaker 5: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org

Your life, your journey starts now.

Why Coaching When Life Feels Fine?

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, Mike, Terry and Lianne talk about why coaching is beneficial even if your life feels normal or fine. On this episode they discuss how coaching may help those areas of your life that you are not 100% happy.

Transcription of Podcast

Lianne: Hello. Welcome back to Journey Coaching. I’m Lianne. I’m here with Terry and Mike. And I have a question, and this is kind of a why coaching question. And it would be that a lot of us are adults and we’re dealing with our life. And especially if we’re fairly comfortable, why would we take the time out to go into introspection to really examine our life when we’re probably all able to handle our lives?

Speaker 2: Your life, your journey starts now.

Terry: Well, I think that’s a really, really good question and probably a common question that somebody listening might ask, “Why bother? Why go into all this?”

Terry: And I guess looking at it from a counseling perspective, because I’m a licensed counselor, I look at it as are you really happy with your life? Are you completely satisfied with the way things are going? There’s nothing else that you look back in your life and you say, “Okay, I’m happy if the rest of my life goes this way when I’m on my death bed.” Will I have any regrets?

Terry: And I think that’s a good question to ask yourself. Some people might actually say, “Nope, I’m good to go.” But I think for most of us, you are going find that there’s some areas in our life that we’re just really not 100% happy with. There’s some parts of our lives where we think, “Wow, I wish I had more friends,” or “I wish I had a different job,” or, “I don’t know.”

Terry: There’s just a lot of areas in our life where we just assume that this is as good as it’s going to get. And what Journey Coaching does is it comes along and says, “But maybe not. Maybe there’s some ways that you can improve your life in some ways.”

Terry: One of the things we try to do is we look at what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses. We have a person start with their story. What’s been going on in my life so far? I think it’s really good to look at our own stories in a way when we tell it to a coach we’re seeing it through our lens, but now we’re also hearing our story through that other person’s lens. And they may ask them questions that make us think about our lives in a different way.

Terry: We’ve got process in the in place where you look at, okay, now here’s your story. What can you identify as strengths out of your story? A lot of times people end up being misaligned where they’re working out of their weaknesses more than they’re working out of their strengths. And looking at it and just asking yourself that question, “Is my life lined up? Is my work? Is my ministry or the different things that I’m doing in life? Am I operating more out of my weaknesses or am I operating more of my strengths? And what can I do about that?”

Terry: And that’s where coaching comes alongside of it. No one’s telling you what to do. It’s more along the lines of, “Hey, have you ever thought about this? Have you ever looked at it from this perspective?” And it’s a value to the person to do that.

Mike: Yeah. And I would jump in and add a couple of things. One is it isn’t just about personal introspection. Life, whether a person believes in God or not, we do come from a perspective that there is a creator that made us and he made us a certain way, and that is in relationship to other people.

Mike: And when you’re doing introspection or thinking about yourself and you’re sharing that with another person, you are meeting a human need to connect with another person. So it isn’t just you sitting in your room by yourself having this personal introspection moment, though that’s part of it so that you have something to share. But journey coaching is about connecting with another human. And your ability to think about your own life and share that with another person in and of itself is fulfilling and healing and human no matter what you believe. That’s a very common experience for everyone.

Mike: So I would just add that I think, Terry, just to add into what you said.

Terry: Yeah, sure.

Lianne: Yeah, and it sounds like it’s all in the name, the journey. And so therefore taking a pause and getting another perspective from somebody else who’s extremely helpful is a good idea.

Lianne: Now, I also wonder, thinking from the perspective of somebody who does have a strong faith, and they may be saying to themselves, “Why not just get up in the morning, pray to be in God’s will, and then go about your day? Why take time out for a Journey Coaching type of experience?”

Mike: Sure. And I think I’m probably going to piggyback now because I gave away my answer. I think the answer applies to whether a person is a Christian or not, but certainly God has clearly created a community of people for himself, not just individuals who worship him. That’s why we don’t have our own churches, every individual one of us. We have a church that we’re a part of.

Mike: And so again, in order for two people to connect, they bring what they’re possibly interacting with God within their prayer closet and they process that with other people. And that’s part of the journey of the church or all of the church walking with that together. And Journey Coaching just says, “Hey, we’re going to find a way for that to at least happen between two people,” because what we find in all sociological studies in the church and outside of the church actually, and I don’t know exactly what these figures are, but it’s between 80 and 90% of people would call themselves lonely or they have nobody to connect with. So it’s not working in the culture or in the church to try to do something alone.

Mike: And this is a simple process where two people connect and start to do life together, whether you don’t know God or whether you do. But we would say in the church for sure, we have to get our people walking with God together, and that’s the crucial part of it.

Terry: One, I think that you brought up a really good point about the loneliness. And when you look at it from the research standpoint, they’re finding more and more issues that are coming up out of loneliness. People who are disconnected end up having higher levels of depression and anxiety. The suicide rate is off the charts.

Terry: And so just realizing how important it is that we do find ways to connect with others is so important mental health wise.

Mike: Yes. Well, and I would even add to it there’s a sense of arrogance to think that me by myself can know everything about myself with no help from anybody else. And that really doesn’t work if anybody’s tried that. And we need each other actually to even understand ourselves. We need each other to even grow in any way. And not that we can’t grow it all by ourselves, but it certainly multiplies the ability to grow when we have people in our life speaking into it and seeing things about us and reflecting things back to us about ourselves.

Mike: So if you truly want to grow, you really need other people inside or outside the church.

Terry: Well, and I think the neat thing about Journey when we look at over the last five years of developing it and piloting it with different individuals and stuff, and we honestly during that time, we haven’t had one person who’s gone through the coaching who said it was a waste of time. Every person, even people who have high degrees and people who’ve gone through different kinds of mentoring programs on their own, there’s something they’ve gotten out of it that they said that they absolutely believed was valuable.

Mike: What was also unique is most people had never done anything like this ever before.

Terry: Right.

Mike: Which speaks back to the what the studies tell us. We’re lonely.

Terry: Right.

Mike: We don’t have relationships, a lot of relationships like this in our life. So for people that we are surprised, we think, “Well, they’re going to be bored doing this again.” Certainly, they have all these friends where they’ve told their story to and never before had they told their story like this.

Terry: Right. And we may have talked about this in another podcast. I’m not sure if we have or not. But I just remember when we were sitting around in a coffee shop, mulling over what do we put in the books and how do we put this together and all this stuff, at some point about an hour or two into our conversation, this woman came from another table over and she said, Excuse me.” And we all looked at each other like, “Oh my gosh,” because in a coffee shop there a lot of people who are trying to study and quiet is the important thing.

Terry: And I thought, “Oh, surely she’s going to complain that we were being too noisy or she was going to say something about it.” And you remember what she said?

Mike: She was so excited about what we were talking about, what we were doing.

Terry: She said, “This is so necessary.” She said, “I wish it was in my church. I wish there was something going on locally where I could do this.” She said, “It is so needed.”

Terry: And so that was just really encouraging.

Mike: Yeah.

Lianne: Well, thank you, Mike and Terry, for that great conversation and thank you for joining us and see you next time in Journey.

Speaker 5: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at JourneyCoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at JourneyCoaching.org

Speaker 2: Your life, your journey starts now.

Why Coaching?

Welcome back to the Journey Podcast! In this episode, Lianne and Sarah discuss why you might want to go through Journey Coaching.


Transcription of Podcast


Sarah: So we’re back with Journey Coaching. This is Sarah Banowetz and I have Lianne Wescott here. And today’s topic is,… Lianne, why don’t you introduce today’s topic?

Lianne: Why would you want to go through Journey Coaching?

♪ Your life ♪ ♪ Your journey ♪ ♪ Starts now ♪ ♪ Ba da ba da ♪

Sarah: Ba da boom. That’s a drumroll. Deep questions. So what do you think about that, Lianne?

Lianne: Well, I feel like one of the reasons that I went through it was to just kind of hone in, like, what are some of the things that I can contribute, that I can do, spend my time doing that only I can do? Contributing to the world, making the world a little bit of a better place. Fitting in the things that I’m naturally good at or that I naturally am drawn to, do more of them and stop doing some of the things that maybe are not a good use of time anymore. I feel like each person probably has their own unique thing that they are meant to do, that is their purpose, that only they can do and a lot of people don’t even know that.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s like working in your strengths, instead of your, that was one of the big takeaways for me, I’ve mentioned before, is. What was that part in Journey where it talked about, like how, if you try to work on your weaknesses to make them better, you’re only going to go so far. But if you work on your strengths to make those better, you are really going to succeed a lot more. I’m not saying that very clearly, but.

Lianne: Well, let’s imagine that you’re an eight out of ten in some strength that you have. Very high, way up over the 50% line. And then let’s say that there’s something where you’re at 40%, under the 50% line. If you work, and you work, and you work, you can improve yourself maybe 4%. So now you’ve just gone from, or 5%, let’s say. And now you’ve just gone from an 80 to an 85, at your strength, but you’re not even to the 50% line on your weakness. So it really is a better use of your time just to go with your strengths, do the things you’re good at, and not spend a lot of time trying to correct things that are really.

Sarah: Well I’m trying to be someone else. Like, we look, admire people, and we should. I mean, we should be really joyful and thankful for who other people are, but when we try to be like those people, we’re not going to, we can’t be that person. We’ve got to be ourselves and we have our own unique giftings and talents, and to, our God-given talents, and to really grow in the, to really walk in those God-given talents produces some good fruit.

Lianne: Right, so yeah, for looking around and trying to see what other people are doing, it’s better just to maybe sit down and do the coaching. And then, people, maybe that person’s reflecting back to you some things that you hadn’t thought about. Like, I’m really good at those things, maybe I can apply ’em in this way or do that? So, aside from relationship building, I think that’s my number one purpose that I’ve found in the Journey Coaching.

Sarah: Lianne, what might be another reason why someone might wanna, would wanna do coaching?

Lianne: Well I think we all get to points at our life that we’re transitioning that might be a time of different stage of life. Kids are a different stage of life, maybe changing in jobs, adding, reducing hours, things like that. I also think there’s a time in life when everything was working for awhile but maybe we kind of lose our focus. And I felt kind of that way, like I was a little bit on a plateau and I just didn’t know where to go next, and that’s important to some people. Other people, maybe they’re new to an area and they just want to feel like, how do I plug in?

Sarah: Oh yeah, that’s next in the thought too, is, you know, the relationship building and.

Lianne: Mhmm, so anyway, but I feel like for me the number one reason is just, you know, finding that purpose, finding a little bit of focus. And for me it was how to serve because I just, again, looking around and seeing what other people were doing but was my way that I was going to uniquely serve? And I just think it was well worth spending that time thinking about that and talking about that.

Sarah: Well, and I do want to revisit the fact that, Lianne, you were both coached and you coached. So you were a coach and you were also a coachee, is that the right?

Lianne: I think that’s a good term, we’ll go with that one.

Sarah: So you were coached first before you became a coach?

Lianne: Yes, my husband and I went through it with Jeff and Teri, and they call us the guinea pigs. We were kind of early on but it was a good experience for me and I’ve enjoyed coaching a few other people, including you, Sarah.

Sarah: And so that’s another good point because when I, when you coached me, it was just you and me, but when you were coached, it was you and your husband, so it was two coaching two.

Lianne: Yeah, yes.

Sarah: So, and how is that different? So, not to like, let anything that you talked about out, but how is, is there much of a change between two people coaching two people and one person coaching one person?

Lianne: Well it doubles the amount of answers that you have.

Sarah: Or is it longer?

Lianne: You have to be a little more efficient. It was kind of fun to not try to answer question on behalf of your spouse, things like that. So Jeff and Terry, and Terry being a professional counselor, helped a lot. But we enjoyed it, and half the time we, even though we had twice the answers, Jeff is real good at, “how is your week,” and all that and so we did spend a lot of time talking about other things but, I’m sure that each coaching relationship is different anyway.

Sarah: Yeah, depending on different personalities and people.

Lianne: Right. So.

Sarah: Well, it was good to talk with you Lianne.

Lianne: Yeah, I enjoyed that very much.

Sarah: Yeah, so we, stayed tuned for the next podcast, the next Journey podcast when we talk more about these topics about coaching, and life, and strengths, and working in your strengths, and everything else that Journey is all about. So stay tuned for the next one, bye.

Narrator: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at JourneyCoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Start your own journey at JourneyCoaching.org.


♪Your life ♪ ♪ Your journey ♪ ♪ Starts now ♪ ♪ Ba da ba da ♪

Real Friendships Matter

Welcome back to the Journey Coaching podcast! In this episode, David, Terry and Sarah talk about what Journey Coaching is all about.

Terry: Welcome to the Journey Podcast. I’m Terry, and today we have David and Sarah. For our topic today, what I thought would be interesting is if we … There’s so many people out there that, or would maybe consider coaching, maybe consider having somebody come alongside them and coach them. What would you tell them? What kind of things could you say to them to help them understand what it’s about?

♪ Your life ♪ ♪ Your journey ♪ ♪ Starts now ♪ ♪ Ba da ba da ♪

Terry: Sarah, do you have any ideas?

Sarah: I would say that it’s about friendship and just being … having relationships with people. Not being scared of going outside of your comfort zone and just making friends with people. Yesterday, I was talking with … I have a marketing business and I was talking with a business owner and we were talking about networking, not directly, but just indirectly about who we … I don’t know how to say this but, I think we tend to … We were talking about networking with other marketing people and I was like, I don’t really try to network with marketing people. I mean, it would be easy to do because I’m in marketing, but I try to network with business owners which is my target audience or whatever, I guess.

Sarah: I think it’s about friendship and about building relationships with people both on either side of it, whether you are the one that is being coached, or you are the coach. Either position is a difficult and outside of the box, scary position. We tend to gravitate to people who are like us, so we network. I mean, there’s a lot of people don’t like the word network, but that’s what essentially it is, is as adults we network with people naturally and we tend to network with people that we’re like. So like, for example, if you are like my … I’m in marketing, so a lot of marketing people will hang out together and they’ll do stuff together and it’s harder to get outside of your comfort zone and start networking with business owners who might actually be interested in your services.

Terry: Let me try this. Both you and David, both you, Sarah and David, were coached. What was that like for you when you first sat down with someone and started talking about your story?

Sarah: When I first sat down it was nice and easy, but it took several years to get to that point because I didn’t want to do it at first.

Terry: Can you get kind of get back into what that was?

Sarah: Well, for one reason and this probably wouldn’t resonate with a lot of people, but I already have a counselor. I’ve been seeing a counselor for five years, ever since I started traveling to Ethiopia, and it’s really helped me. There’s a bible verse that says, “For a lack of counselors … for a lack of counsel, plans fail.” And I really found that having, I mean, really that’s talking about, it doesn’t have to be a professional counselor, but I found that in my situation that’s one of the many voices of counsel in my life is my paid counselor. I started [inaudible 00:03:16] anxiety and stuff and it’s worked really well, and so I didn’t want to do coaching because I had felt like I used my counselor as a coach. I feel like I’ve been able to do a lot of big things in my life because I’ve had this counselor that I see. So I thought, oh, I don’t need coaching because I’m already doing it.

Sarah: But then, I did do both at the same exact time so it was this spring when I started doing coaching with [Leann 00:03:43] who you guys have heard on the podcast before. And so I was doing counseling and I did both at the same exact time and I will say that it wasn’t a waste. It was very much about building relationships. I became friends with Leann, I still had my counselor, and they’re different people. It really helped. I was starting my third business, my marketing company, at the same exact time that I was both getting counseled regularly and also doing coaching. It was just nice to have that … it felt like a … both feel like a breath of fresh air. Especially if you have someone who’s kind and encouraging. Both Susan and Leann are.

Terry: David, you’ve coached people before informally, a lot, and being a pastor and so on. What was it like for you to then say, to agree, yeah, okay, I’ll be coached?

David: Oh, I was excited about it because it’s … One, it was a friend. Coaching begins with friendship and Jeff was my friend and when he came and said, “Hey, we’re thinking about doing this and that, would you mind sitting down and can we go through some things together?” Hey, it meant I got time to spend time with my friend. Then as we began to go into the topic, we now also have a topic that we’re both very interested in.

Terry: Right.

David: For me then to start out by telling my story to him and then Jeff told me his story, and the journey was off and running. I just think it’s very, very fun to do something where you’re learning about yourself and others are … And you’re learning about somebody else at the same time. Sometimes we don’t want to get to know ourselves.

Terry: For either one of you, was there any kind of insight that you guys gained from being coached that you wouldn’t have [inaudible 00:05:29] you didn’t get from other sources?

Sarah: Yes.

David: I think one of the things was … usually when we think of coaching, we think of it in a negative way. Here’s the way you can strengthen this, improve that. When in reality, lot of this coaching in the time with Jeff, really became a time when we would talk about things that were my strengths. And they may not even be strengths that I even recognized or thought they were even strengths. And yet, Jeff would say, “Yes, it is.” And the other person that we were with in our group, it was very, very encouraging. I look forward to it every time we can get together.

Sarah: That was the same for me too. That’s funny that you say that. I don’t know if it just comes across. I don’t know how many other people ’cause, you know … My biggest takeaway was the strengths too, was working in your strengths instead of trying to improve your weaknesses. Now, that’s not to say that there aren’t things that we need to fix in our lives, by any means, but it did mean you work in your strengths. And I have, as a result of that, seen a huge change in my life in the last 6 months or so since I did the coaching with Leann because of that, because I made decisions. We talked about world view on the podcast one time. I make decisions based off this world view that God loves me and that he’s taking care of me, and that he created me, with good things in mind. To walk in those God given strengths and the reaction that I get from people in walking in those strengths is amazing. Instead of trying to be like someone else, or [crosstalk 00:07:10]

Terry: Who you are.

Sarah: Yeah. Being who I am and then really diving deep in that. And as I said, I was starting a business at the time, so when you’re starting a business and it’s a made from scratch business, not a franchise or anything like that, or someone else’s business, you’re creating a business from scratch. You get to sit there and it’s like a blank canvass. You get to decide what kind of business you’re going to have, what kind of offerings you’re going to have. And to choose to make intentional decisions about your business and what it’s going to look like based off of your strengths, instead of what you think that you should be?

Terry: One of the things I’ve watched you do with your strengths is that you’ve recognized, okay, I have these strengths. For some reason when we have … when we know what our strengths are, we’re more able to handle our weaknesses.Our topic today is on what would people get out of this. In other words, what would people expect to get from Journey Coaching, and so one of the things you’re saying, you both were saying, is you got a better chance to know yourself, and you got a better chance to understand your strengths. What else would you say that people would get out of Journey Coaching?

Sarah: Friendship.

David: Definitely friendship. Yup. You get to know people.

Terry: In both cases, you felt like the friendship grew?

David: Yup. ‘Cause there are levels of friendship. At least it’s the way I operate in my life that there’s levels of friendship. Number one is if you just say hi to people. Number two is if you just talk about subjects and things you like. Number three is, hey, here’s my convictions or my opinions on this. In other words, those are my convictions. But when you can get into Journey and now you can begin to get beyond just the factual and cliché type things and get down to, here’s what really makes sense to me, or this is what touches me, and to share that with somebody else and to find that they’re interested, that just makes Journey Coaching just phenomenal.

Sarah: And it’s so not … Our culture does not do this. Our American culture, we do not get close to people like this and to intentionally do it, it’s outside of our comfort zone, but it’s really good. Then … There was one more point that I was going to bring up too, besides friendship, was … Oh, a chance to talk about these things that we’re all thinking and that we all struggle with and we don’t know who to talk to about. So, deep topics that you wanted to have someone to talk to about, but you don’t feel like you can go to a friend of yours, like a good work friend or whatever, and feel like, hey, can I really talk to you about worldview? Can I really talk to you about my hopes and dreams and what I should do for next steps? You can do that in coaching.

David: And you trust that person and you develop that relationship.

Sarah: And I’m really struggling with this concept. Like, hey, you know what? I go to church every Sunday, but I’m really struggling with the idea of who God is. Who can you talk to about that in real life? I don’t know I’m making a huge generalization here, but we as Americans don’t have those conversations and we give it a chance, but that’s a whole other topic for another time. We should probably wrap for today.

Terry: I think also, as we’re wrapping up, ’cause I think this has been a really good conversation, I think for another topic that we need to get into at some point is also we’ve been talking a lot about strength but we also have a section … There’s a week or a section in there on weaknesses, and what does that look like. Some people go into that one with dread and …

Sarah: That was a hard one. That was a heavy chapter.

Terry: And then so, talking about … maybe we need to have another session where we talk about what are we looking for in weaknesses and why is it important to go there. But for now, I think we’ll wrap this up and we’ll do that at another time.

Sarah: Yes.

Terry: Okay? Thank you very much.

David: See you.

Terry: Bye.

Narrator: Thank you for listening. Tune in next time and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit us at journeycoaching.org and check us out on Facebook and Instagram.

Start your own journey at journeycoaching.org.